Sustainable Fishing and Seafood
Angelina Skowronski: [00:00:00] So when it comes to greenwashing, we really encourage a lot of the partners that we work with when they can to use the MSC Ecolabel on product because that gives the customer the assurance that it actually is sustainably sourced with our COC program and our fishery standard program.
Things like using the general term sustainable without backing it up with a third party certification such as MSC or using the words responsible without a third party verification on your website on your product or anything like that. These words, they don’t hold and they don’t hold enough value for the consumer, I would say. And I know that what we’ve been seeing with litigation [00:01:00] happy world that we live in is that there are a lot of class action lawsuits against companies who are over claiming sustainability.
Josh Wilder: Welcome to the Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. At Mother Earth News, for 50 years and counting, we’ve been dedicated to conserving the planet’s natural resources while helping you conserve your financial resources in this podcast. We host conversations with experts in the fields of sustainability, homesteading, natural health, and more to share all about how you can live well wherever you are in a way that values both people and our Mother Earth.
Hello, Josh Wilder here with Mother Earth News and Friends. and we’re talking today about sustainable seafood. I have with me today Kevin McCoy from Safe Catch and Angelina Skowronski with the Marine Stewardship Council. Kevin He’s the COO, and we’re going to be talking about what it takes to bring sustainable seafood to the market. [00:02:00] Welcome, Kevin.
Kevin McCay: Hey, thanks Josh.
Josh Wilder: So get right into it. Seafood and sustainability.
Obviously, there’s a lot of questions that come in around that because frankly, a good portion of consumers aren’t near where seafood is caught, to be honest. So how can consumers identify what’s sustainable when it comes to seafood and specifically the products that you work with, tuna and salmon?
Kevin McCay: Ultimately I think that the best and the easiest way is for third party kind of organizations to work closely with fisheries to ensure the sustainability and then really promote that partnership on their packaging on their websites so that it is.
Easier for the consumer to identify those partnerships. We currently partner with MSC, Marine Stewardship Council.
And they are really one of the larger more respected [00:03:00] global sustainability certification companies and they’ve done a really good job of working with partners in the industry to establish a reputable certification company and a well known name and a well known mark that you can put on your packaging so you can look for the MSC mark on your packaging and instantly know that, a lot of work has been, has gone into ensuring that product is sustainable for you and your family.
Josh Wilder: So what are some of those benchmarks that that they used to certify?
Kevin McCay: Yeah. I think the definition of sustainability has really come a long way.
Since, the ’50s I would say ultimately, at first it was sustainability was, don’t just devastate the entire fishing industry.
And then it turned into, what is your catch methods? Are you using catch methods that aren’t going to create a lot of bycatch or [00:04:00] damage the environment.
And then now they’re taking a much more holistic approach and going beyond just your catch method into what is the health of the biomass, what is the health of the entire ecosystem, the bait fish, the predators, the prey, the organisms up and down the food chain and then and regulating that by working with the fishers working with scientists and ultimately also working with consumers to, find out what they’re looking for.
Really, and now it’s becoming even more holistic from a standpoint of, what are we doing to the oceans?
What are we doing to the earth as a whole? So the definition of sustainability is taken even further. Now is, how is, what is the global footprint of the fishing method?
So really it’s, what is your catch method? How are what is the health of the fishery that you’re fishing from?
And then what is the overall impact on the ocean and on the earth, I think, is the [00:05:00] simplest way to boil it down. There’s a lot more than just, the old definition of sustainability of what is the best, catch method for this species.
Now, a lot more is being taken into consideration for the overall global health of the ecosystem and the earth.
Josh Wilder: For sure. Definitions change and can be argumentative depending on what vantage point you’re coming from.
Kevin McCay: And there’s been a lot of arguments that have been had over, what really is sustainable and what needs to happen.
Josh Wilder: And there’s also, other terms that get thrown around overfishing, wild caught and farm raised. So on overfishing what parts of those processes that you just touched on address that?
Kevin McCay: Overfishing obviously is going to be taking more fish of a fishery or an ecosystem than it can sustain. Take, for example, one of the products we sell in our elite or ahi, skipjack tuna, their warm water species, they reproduce three times a year, so they have a very healthy biomass. They reach maturity [00:06:00] quickly. That species as long as they have enough, the right ecosystem and enough food to eat. They’re very healthy. You can, harvest a lot of that species. There are other species like albacore, that tuna that only reproduce once a year.
Taking more fish out of the ecosystem than are being produced is going to have more of an effect faster on that fishery, on the ecosystem. So ultimately, real simple way to define overfishing really is just taking more fish irresponsibly, then then that that fishery can, maintain and then that varies by fishery, species, and so it’s obviously another reason why you need groups like, MSC to help the consumers identify those fisheries.
Josh Wilder: On the sustainability practices on your website, it talks about the term “captain-to-table” and the tracking that’s done by MSC to see what the nursery habits are.
Kevin McCay: Yeah, they do a great job of working with [00:07:00] the fishermen, with the captains also NOAA, the federal agency, they do a really good job of demanding high standards documentation on where and how each species is caught and there are a lot of people, really trying to do the right thing and working with the industry to ensure that the right thing’s happening. So yeah, when, when they say captain-to-table, you’re really working with all parts from the captain, from the fisher, from the heart, the processor the brands and then, all the way to the table in providing that information to the consumer.
Pros and Cons in Wildcaught Seafood and Farm-raised Fish
Josh Wilder: That’s great. And as far as, the captain wild caught versus farm-raised , can you describe the main differences?
Obviously there’s the process, but what sort of product you get out of those different environments.
Kevin McCay: Yeah the way I tend to look at it [00:08:00] is, wild caught product is, bioengineered by nature over millions of years. It’s really nature has over the course of all those years really just transformed a wild caught product into the best product for the environment, for the ecosystem. So really, I feel like wild caught is bioengineering by nature, farming is, while healthy, you can control the inputs into the fish, it is not necessarily human engineered, but it’s human controlled. Wild you’re going to have the best nutrients, the best combination of nutrients to benefit our bodies, but then don’t have the environmental controls unfortunately, although nature engineers these animals, these species the influence of human contaminants, human waste, unfortunately, does factor into what you’re consuming from a wild standpoint. Obviously industrial pollution caused mercury. Now mercury is concerned potentially in [00:09:00] seafood. Farm seafood, you can regulate, like I said, the input, you regulate what you feed it, so you’re probably not going to have mercury in a farmed species.
But since you’re controlling with their feed, they’re probably going to feed it what’s most economical to them. It’s probably not going to contain the wide range of nutrients. So you might not have that perfect combination of nutrients, farm species think, but again, then you most likely don’t have that concern over mercury.
I think really ultimately the way I look at the difference between farmed and wild is, farmed is controlled by humans, And you can control the inputs. It’s good.
And wild was designed by nature to be the ultimate, perfect combination of nutrients, but obviously now we’ve had environmental human caused environmental factors come into play on there. Really, as long as it’s being done responsibly, I think that’s the, that’s how I perceive the differences between farm and wild [00:10:00] seafood.
Methods for Testing Mercury in Seafood and Evaluating Best Amounts in Diets
Josh Wilder: As far as those mercury levels, I understand there’s a proprietary method for evaluating the mercury levels in the products you make. At what point in the processes is that
use, and how did that come about?
Kevin McCay: Ultimately it came about because our founder, Sean’s mom was on a diet that allowed her to eat albacore tuna every day. And that’s what she preferred to stay on that diet and ended up, actually getting mercury poisoning from that diet.
They didn’t, that wasn’t as established cause of her symptoms at the time. Our founder Sean Wittenberg, his family was really concerned about what was happening to their mom. They found out eventually that she had elevated mercury levels that was causing her symptoms.
Sean’s dad, Malcolm had a bioengineering chemistry background and they started working on a solution to ensure that, families don’t have to go through a similar situation that they did. So the technology was [00:11:00] developed to, not take the mercury levels out, but at least be able to allow consumers to, have an opportunity to know what they’re putting in their bodies. And so what we do is, we developed the technology that can test a single sample in under 60 seconds. And so we are at before we purchase fish, we’re at the ports as they’re sorting the fish, we’re allowed to test it just like you would monitor a fish for its quality before you bought it, we’re allowed to test it for its purity by testing its mercury levels before we buy it. So if it meets our high quality standards, if it meets our sustainability standards and has the correct sustainability documentation and then meets our mercury standards, which we know because we tested it, then we purchase it, goes into our supply chain and ultimately, ends up as the Safe Catch product on the shelf.
Josh Wilder: Your standard tuna that if you didn’t have this [00:12:00] test what is a safe amount to eat?
Kevin McCay: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a hard one. Just because ultimately the problem is variance, if you look at the FDA website, your average mercury content of light tuna, which is like skipjack is I think 0.118 parts per million.
That’s not crazy. You wouldn’t want to feed it to your kid, every day. But on average, those are lower mercury species. Albacore is on average is higher, but the problem is the variability.
Since we’ve done testing, we’ve tested over seven million, species of fish.
We have seen within the same school of fish a variance of up to 20 times difference. So you could have a very low mercury levels in a fish in one in a school and have 20 times more in that same school. So that’s why again, if you look at the FDA website within even, technically low mercury fish, you’re going to see levels as high as like 0.8, which is just below the FDA’s limit, but you wouldn’t want to be [00:13:00] consuming that on a daily basis. That’s eight times more than the average.
So the only way to ensure that you’re not getting those high mercury fish is to test every single one, and which obviously Safe Catch does, but only one that does that. So If you don’t know what your mercury levels are, your max mercury levels and your average mercury levels, then I think the best tool to ensure that you’re not going to consume too much mercury is to use the EPA’s reference dose. It’s one microgram per kilogram of body weight per week. And there’s a lot of calculators out there that’ll, allow you to put your body weight into the calculator. You can take our average, which is published on our website and see based on your body weight, how much you can safely consume of this product. Obviously, we’re not medical doctors, so we’re not going to give health advice, but we can, if you can use the EPA’s reference to us as a benchmark based on your body weight, you can, if you know the mercury levels that are [00:14:00] in your fish because you caught them. You can make a very educated guess on how much you can eat.
Now, our, like our ahi, our elite, which is skipjack tuna because we test every one, we know that our average mercury level is below 0. 04 parts per million.
Based on those levels, if you’re an adult, you can reasonably eat, at least a can a day. And stay within that underneath that EPA reference stuff.
If you’re a kid, I have a five-year-old son that loves seafood. He would eat seafood three times a day, every day if he could. And even though I have a lot more knowledge of, mercury levels in different species of fish which I guess is a gift and a curse we’re not gonna let him eat seafood three times a day, every day. I don’t even let him, Safe Catch every single day. So small kids, you’re gonna want to regulate it more. As an adult, you can pretty safely consume, the very low species probably every day. That being said, you [00:15:00] always want to have variety in your diet.
And if you’re going to eat something, you know, every day just, do a little research into whether or not, it’s typically a high mercury fish. And then, like I said, you can go in and find a mercury calculator that will tell you what you can safely consume to stay under that reference dose based on your body weight.
Josh Wilder: And there are different recommendations, obviously, for pregnant women.
Kevin McCay: Yeah, certainly. Yeah, they’re, obviously a lot more sensitive to that. I do, want to point out, Safe Catch, because we are testing every single fish. Our elite Anahi is the only fish that meets Consumer Reports low mercury criteria or is the only brand that meets consumer of course low mercury criteria for those sensitive populations like pregnant women, small children and the immediate compromised population.
Josh Wilder: As far as salmon goes, what are some of the differences between that and tuna as far as mercury or fishing?
Kevin McCay: Yeah. Yeah, the main difference really is [00:16:00] lifespan. Salmon generally, reach maturity faster. They’re going to reach that larger size where you’re going to consume them quicker.
They’re not going to have as much time to bioaccumulate mercury as other fish larger that are going to consume more fish by accumulating more mercury. Skipjack ahi those warm water tunas, they’re, because they’re maturing so quickly, they’re consuming less of that bait fish.
You have your larger fish like albacore, even larger, swordfish, shark, that are, longer lifespans going to consume more fish. Over time, they’re going to have even more higher levels of mercury. In general, salmon is going to have lower levels
Specifically if it’s farmed, because, like I said, you can control the input.
So it should have lower mercury levels almost, just below traceable wild, you’re going to have in general, lower mercury levels, you’re some of your larger species of [00:17:00] salmon, king salmon
You could have a little bit higher mercury levels, but they’re generally going to, be lower than tuna. Just because of, how quickly they reach maturity, how quickly they’re harvested.
And how much of a chance they’ve had to consume other fish that contain mercury. It really comes down to their life cycles.
Emerging Sustainable Fishing Trends
Josh Wilder: Sure. That makes a lot of sense.
I really appreciate your time today. And I think it’s been enlightening to think about, especially like I mentioned, I’m in Kansas, middle of the country. We’re not doing a whole lot of salmon fishing here but obviously seafood is a big part of the food system.
And so at this point, what is the future of the seafood industry? What do you have your eye on coming up?
Kevin McCay: We all got to do our part to ensure that our oceans are protected. I think that’s the biggest one. We don’t want to pollute the fish tank. That I think is step one. To ensure that our [00:18:00] oceans can sustain life for longer. And then step two is obviously looking out and searching for brands that are doing the right thing. And ensuring sustainability so that then on that next level, that species is going to stay around and is responsibly sourced. And then, number three, I would just say eat seafood, it’s seafood is great for you. Given the opportunity just make sure that is a part of your diet because that was something that, like I said, nature produced for you.
That is is amazing for your nutrients, protein, Omega threes. Yeah, just ensure that we’re protecting our planet. You’re protecting the species and then protecting yourself.
Josh Wilder: Appreciate it. Thanks again.
Kevin McCay: Awesome. Thanks Josh.
Josh Wilder: I’m excited to have Angelina Skowronski with the Marine Stewardship Council or MSC. She’s the Market Development Manager there and MSC is a global non [00:19:00] profit organization that works to end overfishing around the world and through the use of their blue fish label, they make it easier for everyone to identify and choose certified sustainable wild caught seafood.
Thank you for being here.
Angelina Skowronski: Thanks, Josh. Yeah, excited to be here.
Josh Wilder: So tell me a little bit about your role with MSC.
Angelina Skowronski: Yeah. My official title is market development manager. And so what that means for a nonprofit like MSC is that I go out and I work with businesses. And best way to describe it is that after the fish get landed onto the dock all the way until it gets to the consumer on their plate or in the grocery store.
I work with all of those businesses in between. Primary processor, secondary processor, restaurants, brands, retailers, anyone who touches the fish, I work with them. And I try to, for the most part, try to get them to commit to sourcing MSC product, MSC sustainable. Help them with marketing [00:20:00] whether it’s marketing to their consumers or B to B marketing to their customers such as a restaurant or a retailer or anything like that.
So anywhere they need assistance with with their sustainable sourcing seafood.
Marine Stewardship Council Standards
Josh Wilder: Great. So when we talk about the standards and the label on the products, what are the standards that MSC looks for? As far as fish populations, ecosystem impacts, etc.
Angelina Skowronski: Yeah, that’s a great question. So we have to MSC actually has two standards.
So the first one is our fishery standard. And the second one is our chain of custody standard. And so big picture, our fishery standard really focuses on the fishery itself, what’s going on underneath the water, and making sure that’s sustainable. And then once the fish is landed, as it goes through the supply chain. We have a chain of custody standard. So that is something that businesses will would have are certified for. And it just says that if they’re [00:21:00] handling MSC certified seafood, it actually is MSC certified seafood. And it’s not a different species or comes from a different fishery.
So specifically when it comes to the fishery standard, because I know that’s really the meat of our program we have three main principles. And so the standard examines the sustainability of the stock. So making sure that the stock is strong and there’s plenty of mom, mama fish to have babies.
The second principle is ecosystem impacts. So these are things like your gear type the type of fishing net that the fishermen are using or gear like hook and line or pot or anything like that. Is it, what impacts does it have on the ecosystem? And then the third principle is management.
And so this is making sure that there’s a management structure in place. that people are following the rules. If people are not following the rules, is there enforcement to punish or reprimand the people who are fishing illegally. So those are the three main principles when it comes to the [00:22:00] fishery standard.
And so when a fishery enters MSC, they are audited by a third party auditor. So it’s completely separate from MSC. So we actually we built the standards, we create the standard, but we don’t do the auditing. And that is on purpose so that there’s not conflict of interest or she stuff going on.
I guess she could say so a third party auditor, they go in and they assess the fishery against the MSC standards. So there, there’s many different there’s like P one P two, P three point 2. 5, things like that. So there’s a lot of different criteria within each of the three principles with the fishery standard.
And they are examining the fishery for these things. And if the fishery passes, and so it’s a black or white, so it’s not a like stoplight. It’s not like red, yellow, green. It’s deaf. It’s more black and white. You’re either MSC certified or you’re not MSC certified. And if the fishery has a score of 70 or above and it has to be 70 or above on all three principles, it’s not an average.
[00:23:00] So it’s not like they get a 011 and 100 and another averages out. They have to all three principles be at a 70 score or above. And then that it signals that it is they’re certified and it can be essentially as a consumer, when you purchase a product in the store and you see how you see the MSC bluefish label on your packaging, then you know that fish, the product, the species in that product comes from an MSC certified fishery.
Traceability Through Distribution
Josh Wilder: Great. So can you talk a little bit about the standards as they go from processor to distribution?
Angelina Skowronski: Absolutely. Yeah. So that’s the second part of the certification. So we’ve got the fishery certification on the water, making sure it’s sustainably sourced.
And then as that product goes through the supply chain, that every hand that touches that fish needs to be chain of custody certified. So essentially the chain of custody is like ensuring that. If they put MSC on the product, it [00:24:00] actually is coming from an MSC source, so it’s looking at their the supply chain, it’s looking at focusing on transparency and making sure yeah, making sure that the fish is coming from an MSC source and it’s not like you have, that there’s not other inputs from other fisheries, other species from different non-certified sources. It’s much more of a business transaction certification. It’s not really as focused on like environmental impacts and things like that, because the environmental impacts is for the fishery standard.
The chain of custody standard is it’s traceability. It’s more of a traceability check to ensure that if it says MSC on the bottle or on the packaging or on the menu, it actually is an MSC sourced species.
Following Sources from Fishery to Shelf
Josh Wilder: So is there, theoretically, if a consumer wanted to know where a specific product that had an MSC label on it came from? Is that possible?
Angelina Skowronski: That’s a great question.
And that’s definitely something that [00:25:00] we are trying to figure out at MSC is putting together the linkages of all the different actors. What you can know when you do purchase an MSC certified product is you can know at least what, who produced it.
So if you, when you get let’s say I’ll just use canned tuna as an example. So when you get canned tuna and the grocery store and it has MSC on it, You can look on that can and it will have an MSC chain of custody number. So it’s usually MSC dash C dash five different numbers. And then if you go onto the MSC website to our find a supplier.
page and you type in those five numbers, it will pull up the producer of that product. And it will also pull up the, all the species that producer works with. So it will give you an a a snapshot as to where as who produced it. So what country, what manufacturer and then also all the different MSC species that manufacturer works with.
The system doesn’t go [00:26:00] all the way back to the fishery. And a lot of times it’s a very complex supply chain is the best way to put it. And to do that kind of Going all the way back to the fishery would be a lot of work and a lot of data reporting. And so the program right now doesn’t doesn’t focus on that, but it does focus on your last, your manufacturer and where that where, who your manufacturer is.
Sustainable Bycatch Standards
Josh Wilder: So to get a little granular on the standards one thing that Kevin McCray from Safe Catch that we. mentioned when we chatted with him mentions by catch. Could you talk a little bit about that and MSC what there’s specific standards are for minimizing that.
Angelina Skowronski: So that goes into our fishery standard for principle two.
So ecosystem impacts and it’s, when you look at the ecosystem, it’s not just, it’s not just the fish that you’re catching. It’s the environment that the fish are in. So it’s the other fish that also live with the fish that you’re trying to catch. And are they getting affected? It’s, the coral reef is that are there impacts on the coral reef when [00:27:00] the gear type comes into the water?
So there’s the ecosystem, Impact is like the bigger picture of of our fishery standard. And so we definitely absolutely look into bycatch and trying to figure out how to reduce bycatch within our fisheries. So things like using a different type of gear, for instance. Nets versus long line or hook and line nets.
That’s not all nets I’m saying, it’s been. For, I would say, in general terms, the idea is that a net comes through and it takes It’s more than just the fish that you’re trying to get you’re trying to catch. We call that a directed fishery. So you’ve got your directed species that you’re going for.
So let’s say using the example of tuna, so you’re going for tuna, but there are other species that swim with the tuna that might get caught up in the nets. What we look at is like how those fishing boats are fishing how the nets are operated. Are there excluders? A lot of times there can be excluders within the net.
So the net comes through and it grabs the fish. And let’s say the smaller fish are able to come [00:28:00] out of the excluder. So those are all technical, technological advances. I would say that have happened in the fishery that the MSC. Program has encouraged for these fish for these fisheries to become more advanced with their technology.
And then also other gear types like pull in line and hook in line. So those are getting, those are catching fish one by one in a sense. It’s one fish per one, one hook. And so those ecosystem impacts are much different than a net. It’s a big, Okay. I would say when it comes to gear type, if there’s a lot going on and there’s a lot that we could talk about, we could really dive in.
But I’d say the big picture of it is that the standard MSC standard is trying to constantly push for continual improvement. And so what that means is. our standard. It’s not just, it’s not that the standard stays the same for forever. Every five years, our standard is improved. And so it goes through a review process and we have a ton of scientists and a ton [00:29:00] of industry stakeholders that have input on our standard.
And it’s improved and it changes. And so with that, what we’re trying to do is push these fisheries for continual improvement, especially as technology becomes more affordable and accessible with these new gear types and, things like excluders and things like that. We’re trying to We’re trying to push through the standard program for these fisheries to take advantage of technology and improvements.
One thing to note for this most recent standard review is that we’re starting to address ghost gear now. So ghost gear is what is something that like, so when a vessel loses their gear, Because of bad storms because of high winds, there’s various reasons why a fishing boat would lose their gear when that gear goes into the water and is no longer has a home no longer gets pulled up on a boat.
It’s considered ghost gear. So it continues to fish. And so it continues to to catch more fish as it’s moving through the ocean. [00:30:00] And so one of the things that we put most recently into our latest standard during the last review is addressing ghost gear. How do we encourage the fisheries to take accountability for the ghost gear that they lose, to capture it, to take it out of the water maybe even gear improvements so that if gear does go missing, which it does, it’s just.
It’s what happens. Having the nets be biodegradable so they break down over time and they’re no longer catching fish. So there’s different kind of improvements that the MSC program’s constantly trying to push for. And so when it comes to ecosystem impacts, it’s all about not just catching the fish itself, the directed fishery, but also making sure that the ecosystem, like the world that the fish live in aren’t also negatively impacted.
Josh Wilder: That’s great.
Supporting Small-scale Fisheries
Josh Wilder: Thanks. So speaking to specific fisheries, a lot of our audience work on like a small scale, so I imagine our audience that’s on the coast, [00:31:00] they’re involved in fisheries are probably in small scale fisheries and, how does the MSC support and certify those artisanal fisheries may say which Are there specific programs to help them achieve that certification?
Angelina Skowronski: Yes, absolutely. I’m so glad you asked that. That’s definitely something that we’re working on at MSC is how do we bring a smaller artisanal fisheries into the program? And so we have a program called MSC Improver Program. So acronym is MSC IP, and so it’s essentially working with these small fisheries, knowing that perhaps they aren’t quite at a pull.
point where they can enter the MSC certification process. But they want to, they have intention to. And so the MSC IP program works with these small fisheries. I’d say it’s like a hand holding with these small fisheries to help them get what they need to do to achieve MSC certification. So it could be things like data collection to [00:32:00] become MSC through the process.
You need years of data of fishery data of catch data. And oftentimes these smaller fisheries in let’s say developing countries, they just don’t have that. The science support from their governments to be doing data collection like we do in western countries. And so we work with them in a hand holding way to help them gather the years of data that they need to show stocks and how the stocks are healthy, helping them with figuring out their gear types, reducing on by catch, helping them with management even.
And figuring out what are they, how does their management system need to operate to meet the MSC standard. So through the MSC IP program we I would say help foster these fisheries to get to a point where they can enter MSC certification. So another term that people might have heard of is FIP.
So fishery improvement program or a fishery improvement project. And so there are a lot of different nonprofits all throughout the [00:33:00] world that work with these small artisanal fisheries in a FIP capacity. So fishery improvement the main difference between the FIP, the general FIP terminology and then also the MSC IP program is that with with MSCIP.
We’re holding their hand, but we’re also we’re also getting them on a five year track. And so any fishery within the MSCIP program, it needs to be entering MSC assessment within five years of entering the program. So it’s really much more of an aggressive way to get these small scale fisheries more sustainable.
Oftentimes when it comes to FIP, the general FIP terminology, a fishery can be in a FIP forever, and there’s not ever this this push, I would say to enter MSC. They just are always in this fishery improvement, which is great. And that’s, much better than not being in a fishery improvement. But what the MSC IP program is trying to do is not only get them into an improvement program, but also get them to a point where they’re [00:34:00] MSC certified.
Adjusting Standards for Changing Ocean Temperatures
Josh Wilder: Great. So as far as different sustainability factors, how does the MSC think about climate issues and when it assesses fisheries, ocean temperatures and whatnot?
Angelina Skowronski: Yeah, that that is always changing as we know it’s climate change is always changing and how it affects our oceans and where the fish are caught.
And what season the fish are caught and all of that. So it’s that I would say is incredibly dynamic. And so the standard. And I would say leaning on the standard of principle three when it comes to management, it’s really leaning on manage the management systems in place to be adaptive to climate change.
We are working on some projects internally at MSC to look at climate change impacts when it comes to fishing vessels. And what the the life cycle of a, a. seafood product is. So if [00:35:00] a boat goes out and it uses X amount of fuel to catch X amount of fish and then that fish gets landed and then it travels to travels to Thailand to get canned and then it gets canned and then it comes to Europe or the United States.
What is that carbon footprint of that species? And pretty much the life cycle analysis of The species that are that we work with. So we’re trying to look more into that. Just from an academic perspective, I would say, and then I’m trying to then using that information to figure out how to work with it.
How does MSC work with this information of climate change impacts and also and just the carbon footprint of things and what impacts we are, as humans are making onto this planet when, As we eat seafood. And so I would say when it comes to like to climate change in terms of what is going on the ocean.
It’s always changing. And so it’s really leaning on the fact that MSC certified fisheries do have the management in place. Do you have the [00:36:00] resources in place to to be dynamic to, to manage themselves through climate change so that the stock remains sustainable and that they’re not overfishing the stock.
Josh Wilder: Great. Thanks. I think that’s about all the time we have. Appreciate your time and it’s been great talking to you and thanks so much for your all your info.
Angelina Skowronski: Yeah, thanks for having me. It’s been great. And I hope I hope all of your viewers at Mother Earth News gets more inspired to buy MSC and ASC product.
Josh Wilder: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Mother Earth News and Friends. To listen to more podcasts and get connected on our social media, visit www.motherearthnews.com/podcast. You can also email us at podcast@ogdenpubs.com with any questions or suggestions. Our podcast production team includes Kenny Coogan, Alyssa Warner, and myself, Josh Wilder.
Music for this episode is the [00:37:00] song Hustle by Kevin MacLeod. The Mother Earth News and Friends podcast is a production of Ogden Publications.
