Creating Catios
Josh Wilder: [00:00:00] A lot of our audience are gardeners. And obviously there’s a lot of, perhaps pros to having your cats be near your garden. But as far as, integrating a garden with a cat, is that something you have any experience with?
And if so what sort of what’s, what have you found to be an ideal situation?
Cynthia Chomos: The first thing is ensuring that you’re choosing a structure that is the right scale and size. Our most popular plans are the three sided patios that are secured to the home and the cat can enter through a cat door and a window, a wall, a door.
And so it’s a low impact on the space and obviously, attracting birds with native plants is a great way to, bring nature elements around the caio, but having ’em obviously further away if you’re doing a bird feed or something like that. Looking at the size and the scale and bringing in plants, it’s very important to have cat safe [00:01:00] plants.
And the ASPCA has a great list of toxic and non-toxic plants that you can check before you plant any potential, dangerous plants around the catio or in the catio. My first catio, I had seeding, I had cat safe plants, I had a water fountain. I had a beautiful view out to the garden. I had bird feeders a bird bath, and it was just a great joy to be in the garden with my cat bonding and sharing, fresh air. We humans need it too. We need to unplug those phones and get out and take a cat nap and have quality time with our pets.
Josh Wilder: Welcome to the Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. At Mother Earth News for 50 years and counting, we’ve been dedicated to conserving the planet’s natural resources while helping you conserve your financial resources in this podcast. We host conversations with experts in the fields of sustainability, homesteading, natural health, and more to share all about how you can live well wherever you [00:02:00] are in a way that values both people and our Mother Earth.
Hello, and thank you for joining us for this episode of Mother Earth News and Friends. I’m Josh Wilder, a content director for Mother Earth News. And with me today I have the Catio Queen, Cynthia Chomos. She founded Catio Spaces to address the need for safe and visually appealing outdoor enclosures to enhance the lives of cats.
Thanks for joining us today.
Cynthia Chomos: Oh, pleasure. Absolutely.
History of Catio Spaces
Josh Wilder: So just to give folks an idea of how long you’ve been doing this and where you’re at can you tell us a little bit about where you’re currently at and how you got into this field?
Cynthia Chomos: Sure. Catio Space is celebrating our 10th anniversary. I will admit that I knew nothing about cats 10 years ago. Actually longer than that I grew up with a family of dogs and my neighbor’s cat meandered into my yard one day and I’m like, “Hey. Who’s that in the tree? Trespasser.” And she proceeded to [00:03:00] hang out with me and she adopted me and I became a cat parent for the first time.
And I thought, she’s savvy to the ways of the world. And I put in a cat door and she passed about 10 years later of kidney disease. And I ended up having a dream shortly thereafter and saw this little orange tabby kitten, and I eventually found the kitten and it was out of a desire to keep her safe.
I wasn’t about to let a young curious kitten roam freely in my backyard and potentially get out from, under the fence. So I converted my patio into a catio and I was sitting in there one day with a cup of tea and Serena, my little tabby on my lap and I had a flash of inspiration to start Catio Spaces and I realized that catios don’t need to be, traditional wire cages, that they can be very attractive, built with wood framing and compliment the home. They can be painted and you can bring in plants and, seeding for humans. And that’s [00:04:00] really what started it. I’m also a feng shui consultant and I do design and I just thought, this is perfect. I can combine my love of design, nature and cats. And help cat parents and cats enjoy the enrichment of the outdoors.
Benefits of Catios
Josh Wilder: That’s great. So as far as when you first started designing and building catios and I guess first off let’s start for people that are unfamiliar with catios can you explain the primary benefits for them and the setup or the different types of setups you can have for a caio?
Cynthia Chomos: Absolutely. Catios are outdoor cat enclosures that are escape proof. They come in a variety of sizes. They can be a window box, they could be on a deck, a patio in the garden, or they could be, there could even be a cat tunnel leading to a self-standing catio further away from the house.
But the goal is to protect cats. There are so many outdoor dangers. Everything from predators, poisons, vehicles pesticides diseases from other animals [00:05:00] potentially getting locked in a neighbor’s garage or chased up a tree. There’s just, and coyotes, coyotes are big, especially here in Seattle, and nobody wants to see a listing on your community forum seeing, a lost or a deceased cat. So I think there’s an opportunity, as catios become more popular it really helps promote, cat parents taking into consideration the wellbeing of their cats in terms of protecting birds and wildlife, but also providing the enrichment that cats love. They love the stimulation of nature in the outdoors.
Catio Plans and Challenges
Josh Wilder: Absolutely. So with Catio Spaces, you offer folks DIY plans, when you were putting together those plans that you know, really need to be versatile for anyone’s situation, what were some of the challenges you came across when putting together those concepts?
Cynthia Chomos: What I found out of, building custom catios [00:06:00] every location is unique. And so putting together plans that would come in a variety of sizes and various options for where the door could be placed. It’s also, it’s very important to have a human sized door for access to your cats and also to be able to exit the home if you do have a catio up against the house and there’s a patio slider door or something like that. Human safety, cat safety, giving a variety of sizes and shapes and just they, catios can be very compact. They can be, three feet deep by six feet wide and if you go vertical, it gives cats a lot of, vertical and horizontal music movement and exercise. So just knowing everybody’s gonna have a different situation and to be able to offer the variety. Make it easy for cat parents. I’ve built catios myself with my carpentry team and so I worked with a mechanical engineer and we put together these plans that [00:07:00] are easy to follow.
They include step-by-step instructions and material and tool list materials can be purchased at a local. Hardware or home improvement or lumber store and there’s diagrams. And it could be done in a weekend depending on the size of the project. And it’s so rewarding. There’s no greater joy than seeing your cat go out into a catio and experience nature for the first time and, go do the exploring and looking around and getting acclimated to their new place, their new space.
Catios for Single vs Multi Cat Households
Josh Wilder: Absolutely. I can imagine as single cats versus multi cat households. Are there different considerations, and if so, what? What might those be?
Cynthia Chomos: In multi cat households there can often be stress due to a lack of territory when it comes to multi cat households, being sure that there’s enough shelves, that there’s a circular flow so that nobody gets ambushed, up on the top shelf. But just [00:08:00] doing a lot of vertical and horizontal movement and space for the cats.
Gardening with Cats
Josh Wilder: A lot of our audience are gardeners. And obviously there’s a lot of, perhaps pros to having your cats be near your garden. But as far as, integrating a garden with a cat, is that something you have any experience with?
And if so what sort of what’s, what have you found to be an ideal situation?
Cynthia Chomos: The first thing is ensuring that you’re choosing a structure that is the right scale and size. Our most popular plans are the three sided patios that are secured to the home and the cat can enter through a cat door and a window, a wall, a door.
And so it’s a low impact on the space and obviously, attracting birds with native plants is a great way to, bring nature elements around the caio, but having ’em obviously further away if you’re doing a bird feed or something like that. Looking at the size and the [00:09:00] scale and bringing in plants, it’s very important to have cat safe plants.
And the ASPCA has a great list of toxic and non-toxic plants that you can check before you plant any potential, dangerous plants around the catio or in the catio. My first catio, I had seeding, I had cat safe plants, I had a water fountain. I had a beautiful view out to the garden. I had bird feeders a bird bath, and it was just a great joy to be in the garden with my cat bonding and sharing, fresh air. We humans need it too. We need to unplug those phones and get out and take a cat nap and have quality time with our pets.
Behavior Changes in Cats Using Catios
Josh Wilder: Talking a little bit more specifically about that quality time that cats have in the catios.
Have you observed any specific behavioral changes in cats after they started using a caio?
Cynthia Chomos: Oh, absolutely. I get photos and emails from my clients. Mimi’s at the cat door, first thing in the morning. [00:10:00] She wants out, or, when cats, I’ve had cats that have been a bit shy. When I’ve gone into the home and they’re a little bit timid and I’ll go back later to check in, and that cat is in their element. When they’re in nature it’s like something opens up. That’s a very organic experience and I think the cats get a chance to relax and maybe not be so skittish.
One of the things I find really interesting is some cats, are timid going out and the other ones just go right up and they’re hopping on all the shelves. Just a couple weeks ago we had this one cat who went up to the top shelf and they were pawing the ceiling. Can I get out? Where’s my boundaries? And once they know their boundaries then they’re just, in there enjoying it. And I love getting pictures of, cats lounging and catnaps in the sun and. They need sun. We all do. I live in Seattle, believe me. We need, we, we need it. But cats are always in the window trying to get that sun on their fur and to have, an outdoor space where [00:11:00] that can happen.
And along that line, I will say one of the cat building mistakes in my view is putting a shade covering. Over the catio I think you can have a balance of sun and shade, but I’ve seen builds where, it’s a shingle roof and the cats are up against the wire trying to get some of that sun.
So there’s shade cloth you can bring in. You can bring in a bench where the cats can go underneath and get the shade. So you know part sun, part shade is ideal. But definitely a sunny location versus, the north side where you’re not getting any sun, but any fresh air is gonna be good for a cat.
Feral Cats, Wild Birds and Catios
Josh Wilder: For sure. Yeah. And just talking about its connection with nature and you mentioned the birds before can go into that a little bit and just, some of the issues around cat feral cats especially and birds and how catios are can give cats that outside with my outside.
Cynthia Chomos: Exactly. Know, I think the American [00:12:00] Bird Conservancy, they’re estimating, 2.4 to 4 million birds are killed each year by free roaming cats. I’m not as connected to the feral cat population. I’m working with pet owners, that are looking for that outdoor stimulation. But nobody wants to, have your cat show up with a bird in mouth and leave it on your doorstep.
That’s heart wrenching. We need to protect the songbirds in our backyards. And a catio really is a win-win for wildlife and cat parents having a cat and wildlife friendly garden. I know when my cat’s out in her catio, the birds have a different little, there’s almost like this little warning chirp, like they see the gat and they’re like, warning the other birds.
And they stay away. It may not be perfectly foolproof because, a bird can get into a one by one inch square of wire. The fencing wire half inch by half inch is the best way to keep birds out. Some clients [00:13:00] wanna have more of , a feeling of not being caged in so it, it’s a balance and it’s really up to the cat parent, how far they wanna go. A lot of when we do catio builds, we’ll use half inch by half inch on the lower three feet of the caio. So if there’s raccoons or visiting cats, we can protect them. And also, birds that might be ground feeders aren’t gonna get into the catio. And it’s important to have bird feeders, far enough away that we’re not encouraging predation by cats.
Catio Evolution
Josh Wilder: You mentioned earlier that the one more popular designs are the ones that are attached to the home. And is that something that has always been the case or is there a kind of an evolving trend in design or homeowner preference that you’ve noticed?
Cynthia Chomos: It’s a combination of budget. It’s less expensive to have one close to the house, but also the fact that you don’t have to carry your cat to and from the catio and risk a cat bolting out of your [00:14:00] arms. Cats love freedom and if there’s a cat door, they can go in and out on their time.
If you’re off at work, they can go and enjoy the catio and come back in when they’ve had enough. And you can also there are locks on the cat door so you can monitor. Maybe you don’t want your cat to go out at night. But the catios are a safe space, and so having them close to the home and also being able to look out the window and see your cat, enjoying the sun and being able to, if they’re large enough like a sanctuary style caio, that’s eight by 10 or six by eight, there’s room for you to step out into that caio and enjoy it too.
There’s the enjoyment of watching them. It’s also the convenience of the cats having free reign, if you will, and the cost.
Catio Materials and Designs
Josh Wilder: As far as the cost goes and materials you mentioned the plans that you have and share with folks how made wood and basic metal wires. Is that right?
Cynthia Chomos: Yes, it’s a galvanized, welded fencing wire,
Josh Wilder: so I’m sure, you [00:15:00] mentioned all the photos you get of cats that you’re, the folks that you talk to send over. I’m sure you’ve seen a gamut of different designs. Can you talk about some of the more unique designs that you’ve seen, perhaps, and then, I’m sure you’ve seen some unique DIY catios over the years.
Cynthia Chomos: So our DIY plans we’ve got a window box and there’s the sanctuary in the haven that right up against the house. And then there’s the oasis, which is further away. But as far as custom catios, that I’ve had the pleasure of working with clients. I had one client in particular, she lived over on Vashon Island in a secluded plot of land, and she was an artist and she says, I know you do nice and pretty ones that compliment a home, but I want art, I want garden art. And she had four cats and she lived in a purple house with pink trim. And she had a bubblegum pink deck on the back and we built this multicolored [00:16:00] cabana catio for her two new kittens and they loved it so much. There was a tunnel that went out to that particular deck. She loved it so much. She wanted one for her other cat.
So we built a birdhouse style catio, very colorful. And then her third cat, the senior cat, liked to hang out in the front side of the house, so we built another one there. And then she wanted a few tunnels to connect them. And so there were these magenta elevated catwalk tunnels, 180 feet of elevated catwalk tunnels that completely circumnavigate the house.
So all the cats,
Josh Wilder: wow.
Cynthia Chomos: Go all the way around. And she had, metal art and, it was just, you’d walk onto her property and your mouth just goes, ’cause it’s her, she’s eclectic and it and that’s what she wanted. Yeah. And what a fun project. It was one of the funnest. I’ve also done a project on a houseboat for some cerebella hyperplasia cats. The CH cats that have balance issues. Interesting. [00:17:00] Balance issues and she lives on a household
Josh Wilder: both. Yeah.
Cynthia Chomos: So the key there was, she wanted it colorful and so we ended up, painting it and the key thing for the cats, ’cause we customize ’em for the cats and there were ramps that had railings, padded railings. There were a lot of rugs and soft places to land and the change of textures so that the cats, had, if they’re going up the ramp, there’s more to grab onto versus, just this nice cozy lounge on the main floor of the catio.
But it was a very fun project and the cats loved it. The fellow houseboat owners would get a kick every day walking by and seeing the cats in this very unique catio. The sky’s the limit. I have a black gable roofed catio. It’s about 13 feet long, and I’ve got a spiral staircase in it and lots of shelves. And there’s a six foot lounge in there for me. I’ve slept out there with my cat and she’s got a 30 foot [00:18:00] elevated tunnel that goes right into the house so she can come and go if she pleases. It’s just a matter of the space, what the client wants they can be a focal point in a garden or they can just, be tucked and blend in.
It’s really anything you want.
Popularity of Catios
Josh Wilder: That’s great. Yeah, I’ll have to see if we can reach out to those folks and get some photos of those unique style and especially and yours as well. If that’s something you could share. Oh, absolutely. That’s great. So I guess final question is so with the increasing focus on pet safety and wellbeing, do you see the popularity of catios growing?
Cynthia Chomos: Absolutely. I think it was in 2023, there was like a 300% increase in catio searches on the internet. So I got involved 10 years ago and I’ve seen a real surge in website traffic and interest. And there are catio tours that are happening and popping up around the country.
Seattle, we [00:19:00] sponsor one. I work with the Humane Society of the United States, and we sponsor alternating years. We’ll have a catio free open house and then the next year we’ll do an actual catio tour where we charge $10 and then that money goes back to the whatever organization helps promote that ticket sale, so the money goes back to support the local organizations.
Josh Wilder: That’s great. I remember looking up some of the search trends around catios and noticing, ’cause a pretty common DIY project for our audience is to build a greenhouse on of their own, and over the past few years catios have, and DIY catios, I believe specifically have out gained, DIY greenhouses as a search term as far as outbuildings, you may, you might say catios are certainly certainly a popular project right now I hope anybody,
Cynthia Chomos: they’re fun to build.
Josh Wilder: Yeah, absolutely. Just imagining, I’m sure folks have anybody who’s a pet or cat [00:20:00] parent like you said, and has, played with their cats and seeing what they like to do can imagine, what kind of catio that they might want to build for them, so it’s certainly a fun project and like you said, with the artists and integrating it with your garden, it’s certainly something to add something special to your, backyard.
Cynthia Chomos: It’s a good investment. All it takes is one vet bill, and that money could have gone to building a catio and keeping your cat safe. So there’s lots of benefits, absolutely.
Josh Wilder: That’s great. Thanks so much for chatting with me and and if anyone has any questions for Cynthia, please send ’em to letters@motherearthnews.com and we’ll send ’em her way.
Cynthia Chomos: Perfect.
Josh Wilder: Appreciate your time.
Cynthia Chomos: All right. Life’s good in the caio.
Josh Wilder: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Mother Earth News and Friends. To listen to more podcasts and get connected on our social media, visit www.motherearthnews.com/podcast. You can also email us at [00:21:00] podcast@ogdenpubs.Com with any questions or suggestions. Our podcast production team includes Kenny Coogan, Alyssa Warner, and myself, Josh Wilder.
Music for this episode is the song Hustle by Kevin MacLeod. The Mother Earth News and Friends podcast is a production of Ogden Publications.
