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Stone Splitting Options
jdcox
#61 Posted : Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:46:32 PM
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Well, admittedly, things go better when there is a trained neutral but you are not likely to ''get that happening'' right off the bat. First the disputing parties have to recognize that there is a dispute. It would be offensive to one or more to ''shove a mediator'' down their throat at the first go ''round. My guess is that the vendor and the realtor don''t even know there is a problem. Secondly, a pro will charge. And until everyone knows why they should pay, they won''t. So a preliminary ''Houston, we have a problem'' meeting has to happen first. Always better in person, too. Never on the phone. And all of them should come. First meeting could be a ''limited'' 30 minute chat at a cafe. As for the ''without prejudice'' thing......THAT is a concession to the accused. Them. Simply showing up could be construed by a lawyer as an admittance of guilt. So you have to give them a ''free pass'' to come. Or they won''t. It''s just a mini-truce.
But you may be right Steve. I''ve been doing this so long, I forget that people can be just as intimidated by mediation and arbitration as they might by the courts. My only retort: an attempt at mediation is cheap and puts you in a good light with the courts if you eventually get there. And a preliminary meeting is just ''good humanity''. And the more wary and suspicious you are going in, the less likely you will be to get a settlement. Park the fear and loathing for half an hour and assume they are good people. Give them the opportunity to prove it one way or the other.
skruzich
#62 Posted : Friday, July 11, 2003 12:07:15 AM
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Hey jd, I am sorry i didn''t mean to sound negative, I was just thinking how would it affect your case if it didn''t go well. Kinda like what the insurance company says if your in a car accident, don''t say anything without talking to them first otherwise you will find yourself liable for things.
I agree totally its better to arbitrate a dispute. Cut the lawyers out of the picture. Make sure you get a fair and just settlement when your wronged. I am all for that. I guess i am too jaded from getting taken to the cleaners one too many times trying to be the nice guy. But you know what, I would probably end up doing it again. ;) Its supposed to come to you in the end sometime.
Mediation and arbitration is being shed in a very negative light around Atlanta area. Companies are forcing employees to sign forms that prevent the employee from suing the company if the company cheats or does something wrong.
But i am sure that there is somewhere a happy medium.
You are right if they are good people it would show, if not that will surface within the first 5 minutes.
steve
jdcox
#63 Posted : Friday, July 11, 2003 4:49:21 PM
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In our system, law is essentially made up of three parts - Tort, Criminal and Contractual. Tort is basically about negligence and Criminal is ''limited'' to the Govt. vs ''Joe Blow'' who is deemed a menace to society. But Contract Law is different. These are agreements. It''s business. No one can be forced to exempt the other side of negligence - even in contract law. Admittedly, agreeing to mediation and/or arbitration takes the court system out of the picture regarding contractual disputes, but it doesn''t take justice or law out of the picture. Arbitrators are simply private judges who work quicker and cheaper than do the courts. Mediators are simply referees who can ''manage'' communication between disputing parties. I would not be afraid to sign an arb/med contract regarding dispute resolution in a company. The alternative is that - when there is a disagreement - you leave or get fired, the parties retreat to their corner and hire up their lawyers so that they can ''throw money'' at the problem. Years later and thousands of dollars poorer, the parties wait on some doofus long steeped in the trappings of the rich life to make a judgment based on what trained lawyers told them. Too often the disputing parties didn''t even get to speak! Our and your court system is very, very inefficient, costly and corrupt for the ordinary person. Real people need common sense, quick, fair and inexpensive resolution methods. In fact, that is practically a quote from Abe Lincoln. Sadly, my personal experience with the American Arbitration and Mediation system is not a good one. They don''t seem to get it. Usually lawyers have dominated the US arb/med rosters and they violate every international neutrality protocol ever written (talking to the clients on their own, strategizing how to defeat the ''other side'' and, worse, the tribunals seem to keep one neutral and assume the other two are advocates). This is a mockery and does a disservice to the ADR process. Having said that, it is still better than court.
596 agreements out of 600 is a pretty good record (actually, I stopped counting at 600 so there were more before I quit). The vast majority of those were mediations. But many of them had an ''arbitrative'' component - a section that needed a ''decision'' so that the mediated negotiation could continue. The ''key'' to making this work is choosing a trained neutral who is completely independent of both parties (that is why an Ombudsman is not as good - they are ''hired'' by the company and have some influence and limits imposed as a result). After my limited experience with Americans, I''d recommend getting a trained neutral from at least 500 miles away. Closer than that seems to ''influence'' the neutrals.
skruzich
#64 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2003 1:42:40 AM
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Hey jd, getting back to the topic on hand, ;) splitting stone hehe, have you gotten the nerve up to try and slip the A.N.T.I past the wife?

Steve
jdcox
#65 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:00:17 AM
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No, I haven''t. My crane collapsed (well, it was fine. But the support leg was bolted to the great slab of rock and a piece of it simply ''came away'' and took my crane down.) The point of that story is: I am now in the ''learn-more-about-my-rocks'' mode. I have to study this stuff more closely. There are fissures and cracks and all sorts of things to note on my giant slab. I can see it now: I use a bit too much ANTI and me and slab of rock the size of a city lot slip into the sea.
Did I send you any pictures of my boatshed? I will - if I haven''t. It shows the site.
skruzich
#66 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:54:22 AM
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LOL I hear ya on the slab. Yes the rock will have many many fissures in it. It doesn''t seem like it but it really isn''t solid.
I do know though, it takes some skill to cut rock with explosives, I learned how with a rock drill and regular dynamite and ammonium nitrate, but it takes a bit of knowhow.
No i haven''t seen the pics.
steve
Bruce Holman
#67 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:37:44 AM
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Posts: 134,494
"...I live near the ocoee river..." --skruzich

Nice country. We went down the Ocoee in our Mohawk canoe a few years ago. Easy to see why you like it.
skruzich
#68 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2003 3:06:37 PM
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Posts: 134,494
I went by there couple days ago, and the river was actually a river instead of a dry river bed like it has been for the past 3 or 4 years due to drought. It was amazing to see how much water was going through, where boulders 20'' high used to set on dry ground, now you see water flowing over the top of them.
It is absolutely beautiful.
Then you can go up to nantahala, river going toward cherokee. Awesome place, if you get there early you can go fishing, but then the rafters come through by noon.
ah0005
#69 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2003 3:06:37 PM
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Posts: 134,494
We are amateur masons, and have done a fair amount of rock/stone splitting with chisels. However, now we are looking into creating straighter splits and usable blocks. Is there anyone out there who can give instructions for using stone wedges and shims/feathers and plugs? We are primarily concerned with the proper size wedge/plug to use with a given thickness of a stone. Thanks.
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