Logged in as: Anonymous Search | Active Topics |

3 Pages 123>
basic plumbing 101 Options
GaryGary
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:56:34 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Hi,

I have read the same thing. The sewer should run nearly horizontal with a small drop per foot, or vertical. At angles like 30 or 45 the solids separate from the fluids, and build up.

One thought would be to use one of grinders (macerators?) that grind the solids up -- that way the solids might stay with the water?

Sad to hear the composting toilet did not work -- do you think they would work under any circumstances? Do you think the ones with the larger separate composing chamber might work better?


Gary
jdcox
#2 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2006 6:47:23 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
No. I think composting toilets suck. Firstly, they don''t compost when the outside temp is 50 degrees or less and, in Canada, that is more than half the year. Secondly, SunMar seems to employ shoddy manufacturing techniques - or at least on mine they did. There are three internal doors that open and close according to the turning direction and allow the compost to ''flip over'' or ''move along'' as the case may be. But they used cheap pop rivets to keep the doors on. And the doors fell off. Worse, these doors are critical and the end result is a barrel full of effluent that you have to scoop out by hand! Not pleasant. Even when I refastened the doors with proper nuts and bolts, the seals on the Sea land toilet leaked! And, finally, with the fan on 24/7 and the temo in July made better by steady 15 mile an hour winds IT STILL DIDN''T COMPOST! I think the reason is that they placed the drain for the excess water too high and so the pile remains wet no matter what.
Their tech support was polite and ''stayed with me'' but you can''t make a poorly made and I suspect poorly designed product work with advice. So I asked for my money back and they said ''No''.
I think that is bad consumer practice and told them so.
In the meantime, I am pulling it and going to a different system.
Bottom line: for year around use where the temp falls below 50 degrees, all it does is ''hold'' poop. A barrel can do that.
JAK
#3 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:38:26 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Actually flush toilets suck. Compost toilets just sort of ooze.
12vman
#4 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:20:13 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
jdcox..

I bought the one made in Canada (Envirolet) and it''s pretty much a piece of crap also..
The only way mine ever came close to working was by not whizzin'' in it..
fricknfarm
#5 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:33:19 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
So glad I read these posts. Thanks for the heads up. As to the plumbing thig, I saw an article once about someone with a similar problem, (house already built,no inside plumbing). They solved it by by actually building their bathroom as a separate entitiy right over the sepic tank. Then the built a covered ''breezeway'' between that and the house. This is really what the used to do in Maine in the old days with privies, they''s build their outhouse like 30-50 feet from the house and the distance between would be barns, storage, etc so they could take care of EVERYTHING without going outside in the worst winter weather.
jdcox
#6 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:57:48 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
So.............plumbers............?
What is the ''rule'' about s**t going downhill? Do I need 45 dgrees?

I could do the ''outside'' room thing but I already have an inside bathroom
(planned entirely around the composting toilet under the house) and I''d prefer to minimize the hassle. If a DW (blackwater) pipe will do the job, that''s the answer.

C''mon you geniuses - you guys know everything.
12vman
#7 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2006 1:22:49 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Hay, JD..
Since you already have an area built to accommodate a composting system, consider this..

http://ecovita.net/privy.html

This is a simple alternative and really cuts down on the odor issue by seperating the solids and the urine..

Here''s an option for the "Pointers".. :)

http://ecovita.net/urinal.html

BTW.. Some years back I ran a long run from a mobile home to a septic system. I was advised to keep the drop at 3"/ft.
davisonh
#8 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2006 2:47:20 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
JD you want a min.pitch of 1/4" per ft. max of 1 inch per ft. for a standard DWV system to a septic tank,least thats what code is here.
As far as connecting a standard toilet ring usually you just put a toilet ring in,connect a 3" 90 degree PVC fitting or whatever and do you 1/4 to the foot slope out to the tank..
20 20
#9 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2006 1:49:20 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
quote:
Originally posted by jdcox
So.............plumbers............?
What is the ''rule'' about s**t going downhill? Do I need 45 dgrees?



Not sure if this will help but 45 degrees seems steep{I''m probably just missunderstanding}. I have a fairly long septic line that only drops sightly from the trailer to the tank{it''s wrapped with heat tape for winter, outside line}. Never had any problems in 8+yrs. I''ll try to remember to take some measurements and tell you how much it drops.
Okay I just went out and looked it runs about 20'' and drops around 1'' +or- an inch or so.
jdcox
#10 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2006 4:32:04 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Thanks, guys, but you are misunderstanding. Crappola will ''float'' along with the water if the slope is 1/4" per foot or 2 degrees. Crappola will also ''drop'' down a vertical pipe - even one tilted to some degree - and the water is not an issue (they both just fall). That ''some'' degree is reputed to be 45 degrees. Rumour has it that crappola sticks to ''side walls of pipes'' BETWEEN those two angles (shallow and steep). If the angle is between say, 5 degrees and 44 degrees, I would (maybe) get poopy pipes.
Don''t want that.
But I can''t find a definitive answer.
I can ''average'' about 35 degrees. I can even go 45+ for awhile and then 2 degrees for a while and then 45 again - but that is complicated and unsightly.
Typically people don''t build on severe slopes. But I did. So my ''field'' is 50 below me over a rock slab on a 35 degree slope. That is the challenge.
Help.
Arcticpixie
#11 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2006 5:39:13 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Not a plumber, but had my hand in a few septic lines and mucked out a few bathtubs from plugged lines backflowing in the house.. so maybe I qualify by default [:D]

Yes. You understand the rule correctly. It either needs to be exactly 2 degrees(1/4" per foot of drop I believe) or over 45. Solids float along at ''2'' and roll along at 45+. So in theory, you can go 2 deg. for a bit then go 45, but can''t switch back to 2 deg. because after the 45+ section there won''t be any water left with the solids to float them along when you get to the 2 degree section.

We have decided to fit our ''to be built'' bathroom with a sawdust toilet this fall, and avoid all that.

Best of luck!
jdcox
#12 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2006 7:27:13 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
thankyou apixie, that was helpful. Of course, you are right. After doing the 45, there would no longer be water left to do the 2! Makes sense but I confess that I was thinking otherwise..........going 45 then to 2 then to 45 then to 2 and back again.
So, it is clear, I have to do the ''shallow'' part until I can get to the ''steep'' part and do it all in two steps...........
I do have another variable which I may be able to employ: and that is that I have a stream running into a cistern and an overflow pipe that runs all day. I could direect the overflow into the pipe and it would always be flushing. I am just a bit reluctant as there is the theoretical possibility of the system backing up into my cistern (very slight). And I am not sure I would trust a one way valve to protect me.
By the way....I am assuming that one can drop ''straight down'' before going to the 2 degree shallow slope.........right?
davisonh
#13 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2006 10:39:59 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Sure I dont see why not..but its better to have a large radius elbow there instead of a ''tight'' short elbow,that way there''s more kinetic energy to ''keep things flowing''
jdcox
#14 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2006 10:47:28 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Yeah, that makes sense. Need bigger elbows for pooping............
But what is the collective opinion about a ''steady flush'' from the cistern overflow?
practicalman45
#15 Posted : Saturday, July 08, 2006 2:11:58 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
JD,
If you are directing your sewage into a septic tank it may not be wise to continuously feed the septic system from your spring overflow. Your septic relies on a buildup and maintenance of bacteria to break down wastes. If it is constantly being rinsed through by cold spring water it may not be "septic" enough to do its job?

I might opt for a holding tank below the bathroom with one of those macerator pumps that cycles on when the liquid level rises to the pump cut on poin (maybe even your "composter tank" could be used??)

Another option might be to just go ahead with the awkward slope angle, and have a flushing provision. A cleanout "T" at the top of the 45% slope could be fed by a tank mounted there just for "flushing" the line". It probably would get enough of a flushing from draining a bathtub or washing machine regularly as well, but if backup was ever an issue, just go out and pull a gate valve and let the contents of say a 55gallon drum rush down and flush your troubles down the drain.
hunter63
#16 Posted : Saturday, July 08, 2006 2:43:14 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
The septic at "The Place" was run @ the 1/4" per ft, to a vertical drop of about 6ft then back to the 1/4 per ft, installed by a plumber, (the underground part), I did the house @1/4'' per ft. and the run to the virtical pipe that he left me.
Works just fine, but there is no 45 degree runs.
jdcox
#17 Posted : Saturday, July 08, 2006 2:47:38 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Well, you old practical man, you. That was what I was thinking. Just ''flush'' it.

No, I don''t have a septic field - that is why I tried the composter. I built on solid rock. The only option is to ''dump'' in the ocean. That may sound bad, but it isn''t. So long as I don''t contract Cholera. I have a bazillion gallons per minute rushing past my front door. Even if all my friends came over to poop every day, it wouldn''t make dent on the eco system. It''s over 600 feet deep in front of my place and a mile across. And the current runs 3 knots most of the time. But it doesn''t SOUND good to say you are pooping in the sea and so I tried to compost.

I ''spill'' about five gallons a minute from the cistern overflow. Surely that would flush anything away...............no?
practicalman45
#18 Posted : Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:09:00 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
I guess the 5 gallons/minute should be enough, but it wouldn''t hurt to whoosh a 30 gallon drum full down it in 1/2 a minute, either. You could set it up with a toilet flapper valve that lets the whole drum load loose at once. Hard to imagine anything resisting going south with that sort of persuasion.

A constant flow wouldn''t hurt either. Especially if the line is exposed to below freezing temps. That 5 gals./min. ought to keep it from icing up too.
jdcox
#19 Posted : Saturday, July 08, 2006 6:25:30 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
waddya figure........a toilet flapper valve on a drum and the ''releasse'' handle up in the house?
practicalman45
#20 Posted : Sunday, July 09, 2006 12:49:59 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Sure, your complete flapper valve assembly includes an overflow tube. Extend that taller to almost the top of the drum with a piece of plastic pipe. Join them with a small pice of rubber hose and a couple hose clamps. Let that overflow be the constant 5gpm overflow down the drain, and just pull up the chain on the flapper valve from inside the bathroom with a little wire cable like a lawnmower cable or a stiff wire. Put a sign there "Flush twice, its a long way to China".

When that drum full lets loose you wont have any more blockage problems. At least not in the drain below it.
Users browsing this topic
3 Pages 123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.





Subscribe Today - Pay Now & Save 66% Off the Cover Price

First Name: *
Last Name: *
Address: *
City: *
State/Province: *
Zip/Postal Code:*
Country:
Email:*
(* indicates a required item)
Canadian subs: 1 year, (includes postage & GST). Foreign subs: 1 year, . U.S. funds.
Canadian Subscribers - Click Here
Non US and Canadian Subscribers - Click Here

Lighten the Strain on the Earth and Your Budget

MOTHER EARTH NEWS is the guide to living — as one reader stated — “with little money and abundant happiness.” Every issue is an invaluable guide to leading a more sustainable life, covering ideas from fighting rising energy costs and protecting the environment to avoiding unnecessary spending on processed food. You’ll find tips for slashing heating bills; growing fresh, natural produce at home; and more. MOTHER EARTH NEWS helps you cut costs without sacrificing modern luxuries.

At MOTHER EARTH NEWS, we are dedicated to conserving our planet’s natural resources while helping you conserve your financial resources. That’s why we want you to save money and trees by subscribing through our earth-friendly automatic renewal savings plan. By paying with a credit card, you save an additional $5 and get 6 issues of MOTHER EARTH NEWS for only $12.00 (USA only).

You may also use the Bill Me option and pay $17.00 for 6 issues.