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Good Ideas? Options
The Big Lebowski
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:32:01 PM
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The Big Lebowski
#2 Posted : Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:32:54 PM
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Well JD I got the toilet paper coverd, just past the 600 roll mark last week. by the way Happy Thanksgiving
John Edward Mercier
#3 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 12:38:39 AM
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Again not a Crash, but a correction...

So while I'm making jokes about TP... you'll still be able to get it, though the price will adjust to relative to other commodities.

To avoid the adjustment of inflation/deflation as a resident of the US or even Canada at this time... it may be best to use exotic US Treasury obligations (ibonds, TIPS, etc).

I would have review Canadian obligations to make suggestions, but the two economies are heavily tied together.

davisonh
#4 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 1:04:04 AM
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One good idea I know works that a lot could do,pick up a skilled trade.They'll be worth a lot more in the future than a clerical/executive job.
John Edward Mercier
#5 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 1:34:36 PM
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Homesteading is really the personal development of skills... so they should be on their way.

But depending on locality you may not be able to market those skills.

Its like Farmer's Markets or organic farms, they don't make much sense when everyone in your area is growing their own food. What you'll have to trade is what everyone else either all ready has, or can created themselves easily.

I think what JD was looking for is storage of labor... inflation/deflation-proofing capital with minimal risk.

jd
#6 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 6:49:44 PM
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Well, to be honest, I have no idea what I am asking for...............that is why I am asking.............but the answers, so far, are good.  Thanks, JEM.  Can you give us a paragraph on exotic US treasury obligations?

BigL - you broke me up!  600 rolls of TP!!  Just how BIG are you? 

Last night at Thanksgiving (Canadian), we and our friends were already concluding that we are better prepared than most.  But, as much as I think JEM is missing something in his analysis (bottom line: it's just a correction), I agree that it is LARGELY just a correction.  But I think it is a bit more than that - a loss of confidence in the basic system, a catalyst for 'greening',  an awareness of inter-relatedness/globalization that 'Mericans didn't understand until all this happened, the vulnerability of the economy, the extent of the 'fat', and much more.  I think this is bigger than a correction but what the H do I know.

I agree that I will be able to buy TP.  And I think trading bullets is not likely to happen.  But how WILL this correction show up to the ordinary guy?  How WILL this correction show up in daily life?  What SHOULD we do?   
Sarah/Librum
#7 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 9:00:22 PM
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"But how WILL this correction show up to the ordinary guy?  How WILL this correction show up in daily life?  What SHOULD we do?"

JD, I have been avoiding this, and related threads, but this one I had to reply to.

Correction?  To somebody who's life and religion is partially based on the concept that it is all a pack of cards, ready to fall down, it shows merely as another cycle, another loop in the spiraling down.  Not a correction.  But then I can hardly be called an 'ordinary guy'.

What should you do?  Too late now, you should already be doing it.  (And from where I sit, you are.)

And a tidbit from Majere.  "Ever see a machine operate by immediate direct feedback?  And thee will not, for all such oscillate out of control."
  
Sarah
John Edward Mercier
#8 Posted : Monday, October 13, 2008 10:24:04 PM
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Go to www.treasurydirect.gov and look under individual investor.

More individual than general. Some people are really going to hurt... other never got caught in the fantasy.

StreetLegal
#9 Posted : Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:17:16 AM
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The bail-out bill was one small step for man, one giant leap for socialism. 

Good ideas???  Let's elect someone for president who does not feel more government is the answer to all problems.  Let's elect someone with guts enough to simply say "let `em burn!"

If any of you happen to be in a position to ask one of the candidates a question, ask him had he been president for the past four years, would we still be having this financial crisis and if not, why not.  What action should Bush have taken to prevent this situation?


___________

StreetLegal is new and improved, now with 18% more sarcasm!

davisonh
#10 Posted : Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:13:20 AM
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Yes indeed Street,we took a huge leap towards socialism and communism.If the govt takes over mortgages ,no matter how you look at it the  govenrment owns your house,not you.Public housing at it's most socialist.A good idea would be to subopena the major players in all this before we send out $700 billion,thats only fair.We the People have a right to know to the t what happened,its our money involved.Why Bush did'nt drag their *sses in shows how much he bows under to private interests.Its pathetic.

jd
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:33:34 PM
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Sarah, Majere!  Thanks for joining in.  Always good to hear from you.   Tho, to be fair, I would have expected no less than what you wrote.  Your vote on such matters has been in for some many generations and is well-lodged.  And, as you also know, I share the basic philosophy that this whole schmozzle is largely a house of cards with a few too many jokers playing wild.  (Altho the oscilating machine analogy is new...............).  But that wasn't so much the question............

The fact that it is a house of cards is not news.  They even say so, "The markets and the currency and the economy are more a function of confidence than anything else."  And so it is.  But it has to have some real value, somewhere.  As JEM would point out, confidence or no confidence, a pig is still a pig, lipstick is still lipstick.  There are 'real goods' out there. 

The trouble is that mixed in with it all are the(cards) or 'papers';  stocks, bonds, bills, the-printing-of-currency-from-air and all the other magical concepts around which the vast majority of the system is based.  We no longer trade a pork's butt for a bushel of apples or twenty gallons of cider.  We first change it all to some form of 'magic', tax it, give Visa a piece and shuffle the paper from one to the other so that the actual 'real value of the real good' has gotten lost.  That some white collar crook or corporation or bank has found a way to steal a chunk is no surprise - the product was lost in the shuffle a long time ago. 

One answer is to trade within your community.  Then your pig's butt can be traded for cider.  The problem with that - and OOMs must experience that, too - is that not ALL products can be made within the community.  We have to let our butts and apples vulnerably hang out there now and then.  We have to use currency now and then (George Soros gets to play with it then) and we have to sometimes have to hold onto currency (and the govt., banks and assorted 'financial managers' get to play with it then).  Worse, some of us believe in 'imaginary' products like insurance and 401K's and the like.  That lets all sorts of weirdos play with your money. 

More and more I am relying on apples, butts and cider in direct-trade transactions.  But I still use fossil fuels and that is my still-biggest tie to the monster.  So, you are right: from where you sit, I am doing some things right.

But part of doing some things right is not to pretend the other doesn't exist.  There is a whole world out there using play money, smoke and mirrors and lies to function.  And I, sadly, have to function with them now and then (tho less and less).  I was wondering if there were some ways to still co-mingle with the madness (I have to for gasoline and propane).  One measure: I rarely use anything but cash anymore.  No more Visa.  It's not much but it helps.  As you know, we are off-the-grid and largely off-the-radar.  Even my mailing address is a box number.  I have no monthly bills except for this satellite server.  That's it. 

But I'd like to take some more action - thus the semi-facetious remarks about ttrading in bullets (probably work in some states).  We are also stock-piling to cover six months minimum.  But, honestly, I have no idea what else could be done.  And I don't exactly know what I am trying to protect myslef from?  Hordes of hellions hunting in boats?  Hardly likely.  Gas is too expensive and the pickings too slim.  I am not afraid of my fellow man - he may be an idiot but he is not much of a direct threat. 

So, what is a good non-OOM to do?        
Sarah/Librum
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:38:01 PM
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"One answer is to trade within your community.  Then your pig's butt can be traded for cider.  The problem with that - and OOMs must experience that, too - is that not ALL products can be made within the community."

Not all, but all necessities.  I am often amazed what we can get via the 'network'.  Oh, I will admit that some modern , such as computers, etc, are not, but I question if we really need them. 

"So, what is a good non-OOM to do?"   


From where I am sitting you are doing better than most.  That comment of stockpiling a six month supply, and being ready for the 'hordes' tells that.

In a way, I envy you.  We are not "pickings too slim".   Enjoy your safe solitude.  If indeed it be that.  We do not have that.  I fear the 'hordes'.   

Sarah
JeremyAdam
#13 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2008 6:17:23 AM
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If I were OOM or any other branch I would be worried about the hordes too. There are many grasshopper types among us who will do whatever it takes to get what they want except work and prepare for it. When it hits the fan they will all come with thier hands or guns out wanting your fair share for themselves.
John Edward Mercier
#14 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2008 8:59:09 PM
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I wouldn't worry about the hordes... we're not heading to the Great Depression or worse.

This is simply an adjustment of the relative valuation of current labor (currency) to stored labor (capital/commodity) to future labor (credit).

 

Neene
#15 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2008 10:56:26 PM
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The Big Lebowski wrote:
Well JD I got the toilet paper coverd, just past the 600 roll mark last week. by the way Happy Thanksgiving

 

Well now, I thought that was what sales catalog pages were for? I guess some of us are just more delicate....

The Big Lebowski
#16 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 5:10:55 PM
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Neene wrote:
The Big Lebowski wrote:
Well JD I got the toilet paper coverd, just past the 600 roll mark last week. by the way Happy Thanksgiving

 

Well now, I thought that was what sales catalog pages were for? I guess some of us are just more delicate....

 

 

Well I use to use the old Eaton's and Simpson Sears catalogs when I was a kid on my granfather's farm. but Eatons no longer exist and well  I haven't seen a Sears catalog in years. so I thought I better stock up on toilet paper and beside I like looking at the those pretty pictures in the catalog


Rufus Cracklecorn
#17 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:37:58 PM
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 Anyone got any good ideas? 

 I got lots only "good" maybe only to me. Dog food- I used to turn my dog loose at night in city and didn't feed it for months. Yes i'm mean

 Buying bullets for trading is inefficient. Better learn to reload and buy those supplies.

  Some things i am doing now. Old house i bought is almost paid for.

 Married a cook

 Saving scrap metal i get at work. This is a thing that is very easy to trade. I have for ex. two pieces of rolled steel that i can make into wood heaters and one a furnace to melt copper, brass, al.

 Acquiring very cheaply things needing to be fixed. I can't afford all these if they actually work, but as i get time i can fix them.

 Garden of course and plenty of jars i got for free.

We are going to start doing deer processing next year. I've been told we will have all the work we want. Planning on ways to trade now, learning those skills now. I'm taking the old RV part of my Class C RV off and making a 1 Ton flatbed out of it.

  

  

  

jd
#18 Posted : Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:47:00 PM
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It has been a year since this thread was started and I am wondering how perspectives may have changed?  Is it business as usual, JEM?  I don't think so.  I am still seeing signs of the fabric tearing.  I won't list them all - you guys read as well as I do - but if it is just a Jem of a 'correction', it is a helluva large and ongoing one. 

Ultimately, of course, anything can be called 'just a correction'.  All the dinosaurs dying off was just a correction.  But I am trying to get a handle on the SCALE of this correction.  It seems to me that China is emerging faster as a consequence of the correction.  Europe, inexplicably is holding it's own.  Japan is seeing a bit of recovery and, of course, the good ol' USA/Canada/Mexico consortium is putting on a game face and keeping the score looking respectable.  But is it? 
 
How can you pump gazillions of promissory notes into the system without impact?  And that inflationary impact must result in all the little guys losing what little wealth they had (and the average American had none - they owed the equivalent of what they owned BEFORE the infusion).  So, does that mean the average American has gone from zero to bankrupt? 

Those are just financial questions.  And I am somewhat content with the survival questions for now.  We are doing better than OK.  Fact is, I am happy and feeling good.  But it is not about my mercurial mood.  It is more about life.  Has it changed in these past months?  Is Obama a harbinger of a different consciousness?  Are the banks regrouping and going back to fundamentals?  Are we really shifting green?  Is there any correction being made by us  -  consciously?  Or are we all just still minnows in a stream? 

davisonh
#19 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:05:11 AM
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jd,IMHO I think it's too soon to tell.This recession only started  2 years ago in 2007.If my memory serves me correctly I remember in the 70's and early 80's the recessions were a lot longer.I dont think we started to see recovery till 1984 or 85.This is because I think many want to 'believe' the recession is over when the numbers say otherwise.No recession ever goes by without something changing.Again jd,has to do with scale,plus demographics.In this recession many boomers opted for early retirement or retirement when 401k were starting to see their values decline.These #'s are'nt included in the employment scenario.Many now have given up looking for work and there are many many positions out there that are not going to be replaced.Why?Because as the population bubble that is the boomer generation gets older businesses find that it is hard to find specialized positions to fill their shoes.There aren't the people needed to fill the comsumer/employment gaps that used to exist,and so the financial largesse that is our country shrinks.That is the base of change in this recession and unlike the recessions of the 70s and 80s I don't think this one will go away as fast as expected.The gov't money helps even the bumps out but they did an awful deed to the banking and automobile markets.The did not let capitalism reign and this has tarnished both industries.Sad thing is there will be no more growth in those markets,they have peaked out;the population cannot afford to support them anymore and so they will die an agonizingly slow death,similar to what happened to companies in Japan over the last 25 years.

John Edward Mercier
#20 Posted : Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:52:03 AM
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Actually this will be the longest post-WWII recession... some have already begun calling it the Great Recession. Its largely because the demographic wave was created just after the war... and will take some time to ebb. The boomers built up assets and now will begin drawing them down... while the government borrowed money from SS/Medicare and will now begin paying it back.

This is what is causing the two largest political concerns in the US... even larger than the Middle East.

Medicare tries to cut expenditures by under paying. Which means that non-Medicare patients need to subsidize the system... and with fewer people capable of affording insurance; just too small a pool of supporters for that subsidy to continue.

And the federal government is, or is about, to reach the point that every dollar of military or domestic spending is borrowed... so its looking for a new revenue source not directly tied to income. An excise tax on energy being the most likely stable source. But it has to be enacted in such a way as to not cripple the economy, nor destroy the poor.

But yeah, JD... we're still in correction and most likely will be for quite some time. Just have to ride the wave out.

 

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