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Climate change and you............ Options
Sarah/Librum
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:30:54 PM
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"Our fractured and well spread out community are also looking to develop some specialties that will serve us like metal work and the like.  We are all carpenters."

And you have not hit us up for our content?  Like the Carpenters and Builders Guides?  Tsk.

"Last question: has anyone planned to move away from low lying oceaftronts or any other directly defensive measures for climate change (like, leaving Florida)?"

Funny you should mention that.  The original enclave was on the west side of the mountains for just that reason.  DC and east Virginia are a sitting duck for any major tidal surge damage.  But, the new is on the east side.  Reason is that there are more hydro assets on that side.  Are you not on the 'east side' also? 

Sarah

Pat Miketinac
#2 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 3:38:37 AM
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Funny you mentioned Florida, jd. I am near the top of a 200 foot hill near the west coast of FL, so I guess I'm ok. Over 31,000 scientists do not believe in man-made global warming, so I remain unconvinced. I have a book printed in 1949 that says CO2 was .03% of the atmosphere then. I wonder what it is now. My wife taught gifted kids for years and did climate studies with them. She says we are about due for the start of another ice age, based on centuries of data. I wonder if  "global warming " could prevent that!

We are also trying to be as self sufficient as possible as inspired by Mother Earth News since 1970. Learning as many skills as possible helped to build my own earth shelter and do repairs and maintenance on most anything. Gardening is hard in FL, but sawmill work is harder, at least in summer! I rarely use it now that the garage is done, but it beats buying lumber.

We have no faith in the two-party system, So we joined groups like Campaign For Liberty and the local Taxpayers Alliance to associate with other like-minded people.

LaserBillA
#3 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 8:34:14 AM
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I've been working hard to increase global warming.

1. I spent more time and money to keep a old 22 year old diesel car running for two years. (86 Volk Jetta) This car does a good job of creating lots of NOx.
2. I work for a company that sells a very inefficient product.
3. My garage and house fire did not help much and it pretty much ended my ground source heat pump and solar plans. It also destroyed 5 generators and over $120,000 worth of equipment... Just thinking of all the energy that went into making all that aluminum that is now melted into puddles.
4. I'm now designing a motor controller for a solar heleostat (small power tower) system that is unlikely to ever pay back what it's going to cost people to install.
5. I now drive a 1 ton diesel truck that only gets 18MPG and smokes badly. I'll have to drive it until I can fix the car or buy a different car.
6. I'm air conditioning what's left of my house even though there is no insulation in the ceiling.


I think that sometimes the best way to help is to do as little as possible.

I also think that it's too late and the solution must come from doing more; not less. We need a nation wide "DC power grid" so that we can use low cost off-peak power to power "carbon capture and sequestration".

I also like "carbon capture and sequestration" since we can later release CO2 as needed to prevent ice ages. Don't think of it as "global warming". Think of it as "We want more control of the climate and we don't want the climate to change."

John Edward Mercier
#4 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 1:46:22 PM
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To be honest...

Anything that is projected to save me money/labor. I am looking to put in some summer solar, but only because its cost effective. Pretty much all the 'low hanging fruit' has been plucked.

And I somewhat agree with Pat... though not on the ice age prediction; orbital forcing is just too far beyond human control. But with the recent warmer-than-average global temps, predicted lower solar output (even if only marginal), and increase atmospheric release of 'cooling' compounds such as sulfur dioxide... quite possible to enter a temporal cooling period during the longer glacial cycle. It wouldn't be without precedent even in recent times.

jd
#5 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 10:08:53 PM
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Sarah.............I tried writing to you and even dropping a note here at the forum but no answer.  So, a double-thanks for jumping in.  I was going to talk to you about the Librum CDs.  As you know, I have some.  But I get the impression that you are adding more.  Yes/No?  I need some advice as to what to purchase.  Please feel free to write to me directly.  Well, anyone can write me if they want but I am particularly keen on talking to Sarah.  Oh, and NO - we are on the west side of the Coast range on the Pacific Coast.  We are 75 feet up from the ocean but I am not overly concerned with sea levels during my lifetime.  It is really more of a general question: is climate change changing your life? 

As for the rest of you............thanks for answering.  Forgive me for summarizing it but it would seem that the basic answer is 'No.  It is not changing me.  Life goes on as usual with some not-too-inconvenient changes and additions'.  Í am certainly not making any major changes nor am I moving.' 

Fair summary? 

I'm in no position to know for sure but I am inclined to think that this is real.  How real is anybody's guess since BIG BROTHER lies about everything.  We won't know until it is overwhelmingly apparent.  Sadly, it is apparent in some ways like polar ice melts, fisheries loss and other species declines.  But that is not the point.  The point is: does this news (true or false) motivate you to do anything differently?  I would assume that OOMs have been on the right path for decades if not centuries so the question is not so much for Sarah.  I actually expected a few to write in and say, "Yes, we are moving.  We sold the house last year and have been looking for land in a small community in the Pacific Northwest.  In the meantime, we have picked up some skills, a lot of tools and learned a lot about independent living."

Honestly?  I thought that the 'movement' would be well under way and measureable.  I guess not. 

StreetLegal
#6 Posted : Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:59:01 AM
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The climate is always in a state of change.  Always has been, always will be.  Just recently it was refered to as global warming, but since that turned out to be unproveable and too restrictive a term, we're now calling it all-inclusive "climate change" - that way we can continue (and even expand) the fleecing of the American taxpayer.

No, I'm not doing anything to prepare for climate change.  No, I do not believe man has the capacity to influence climate change.  No, I'm not worried about climate change, as I believe there will be as much good as there is harm come from it.

All one need do is look at the main huckster promoting (and profiting from) the climate change farse - Al Gore - and the whole concept starts smelling pretty bad.

To me, the bottom line is this:  if you live next to the ocean, you can count on the ocean kicking your a** at some point in time.  If you live on the banks of a river, you can count on the river kicking your a** at some point in time.  If you live in a dry creekbed in the middle of the desert, you can count on a flash flood kicking your a** at some point in time.  

We're concerned about controlling climate change when we can't even control the 6 inches between our ears.  The problem mankind needs to come to terms with is his blatant stupidity.

 


___________

StreetLegal is new and improved, now with 18% more sarcasm!

Sarah/Librum
#7 Posted : Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:06:13 PM
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jd wrote:

"Sarah.............I tried writing to you and even dropping a note here at the forum but no answer.  So, a double-thanks for jumping in.  I was going to talk to you about the Librum CDs.  As you know, I have some.  But I get the impression that you are adding more.  Yes/No?  I need some advice as to what to purchase.  Please feel free to write to me directly." 

I just found and bumped the Librum thread.  So as to not hijack this one.

 

 

 

"Oh, and NO - we are on the west side of the Coast range on the Pacific Coast.  We are 75 feet up from the ocean but I am not overly concerned with sea levels during my lifetime."

But are you sure you are safe from the dreaded 'surge'?

"It is really more of a general question: is climate change changing your life?"

 

It is affecting us in some ways, mainly agricultural non-food crops.  I am beginning to think that it has shifted , and is shifting, the growing 'zones' for plants.  For example, goldenrod is used in some of the older ink restoration work.  Our main supplier had crop failure.  Pussywillow is another one. 

Whoops, gotta go, crisis in the dining facility...

Sarah


davisonh
#8 Posted : Sunday, June 21, 2009 3:04:14 AM
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Hey jd,bet you're waiting for a response,but my opinion as you know is the same as Streets,he's right humankind has a problem with scale.Always has.Mother Earth deals with issues on a far far more massive scale than we as a species deal with .Yea we problably are having an effect on Earth,good or bad we won't know,but what I know is than I am personally responsible for what happens on the 10 acres of the planet that I own and that I am the caretaker;I take down dead and dying trees and brush and use them for my heat in winter,I clean out overgrown areas and prune + take care of the trees,brush that are ok,fill in holes that are dangerous to wildlife as well as myself, take the ash from those dead trees and spread it out from where it came; arrange drainage so it does'nt damage my land/house,make a small part of the land work for me by making my food,making sure my water supply's not contaminated,etc,etc.It's a lifetime job jd,one I know I signed up for and that many sign up for but it's what I do and I feel lucky to have #1 the knowledge of how to take care of the tiny part of the home I live on and #2 to be able to pass down to the next generation the things that I know.My family's been doing this for over 200 years so far and I don't see a lack of interest in it from the generation I see coming up.What I do see that is new is the knowledge that we are responsible for what we do and our actions defininitely have an effect.We're far more knowledgeable(and more powerful) than we used to be and I think that the idea that we were not 'given' this world by God but more that we were 'placed'(for other than a better term)here by God( or evolved into a species) to take care of whats here now and to deal with the changes that come along and to do what we must to protect the species that exist here now.Hey,we as a species somehow made it thru the last part of the Ice Age without going under so that must mean SOMETHING,lol!If that means the Earth warms up then we deal with it,we move ourselves,the wildlife,the trees and all we have inland.Thats our responsibility,as is the threat to the Earth if an asteriod comes our way.We deal with it,we send up whatever devices necessary to move the asteroid out of danger if possible.This is the first time in Earth's history that all this is possible where a planet has the ability to protect itself from harm,if it does not harm itself irreparably in doing so.So if you're thinking jd that all this is ridiculous,no it's an ongoing process.Sorry but you wont ever see the results,those our children and childrens' children will see,if we can keep the North Korea's of the world under control.Thats what I believe jd,I just hope for everything alive on the planet's and our own sake a lot more believe what I do now too..

practicalman45
#9 Posted : Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:59:36 PM
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jd,

I would question the "accepted wisdom" (about global warming) more.  Those making the assertions that we are all on the brink of destruction because of human-caused climate change have their own "political and economic agenda" that they are serving by making such assertions. The answer, they say, will be "global carbon taxes and credits". The trouble with this is that it requires the hastening of global government by the same corporations striving to end national sovereignty and take ultimate control over all of earth's nations. The "inconvenient truth" of their solution is that they want to bring about globalized government by corporations, mainly the banking corporations. This cartel also owns most of the media corporations, as well, so to watch or read almost anything on "mainstream media" is to be bombarded with propaganda supporting this agenda. It is a political and economic agenda, more than one based on true science. Globalization, and the loss of freedom and independence and individual liberty and privacy and truly free markets that globalization will bring, scares me far more than the prospect of any coming climate changes.

jd
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:05:13 PM
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Global warming is happening whether or not the blame can be placed on human activities.  Maybe it's natural.  Maybe we did it.  Does it matter that much who's to blame and who may benefit?  Isn't the salient issue whether it is happening or not? 

And there may be doubt about our role in the matter (tho not much if you read what I read) but there's no doubt that the climate is changing more rapidly than ever before.  We are currently living in an atmosphere with 387 parts per million when there were only 280 ppm at the turn of the 20th century.  That's close to a 40% increase and that is only C02.  Methane makes it worse.  And we'll feel that 'greenhouse gas effect' (we already are) in our lifetimes. 

Up here, we now have 'southern' fish we never had before in our waters and some of our fish 'usuals' have moved north.  The biggest example is oysters - they never grew north of our place.  Now they do.  Prolifically. 

 But it is not about any one example or even ten or twenty.  It is simply a fact that the climate is changing and it will have an impact.  I suspect that the biggest impact will be northerly migration.  You may even find Africans moving to Europe and Central Amercians/Mexicans moving to the USA (gasp!). 

Is it all bad?  Who knows?  But it will be different.  And, if it is different, do we adapt or move? 

I moved.  And I am pretty ordinary when it comes to human behaviour.  I am like a poster boy for average behaviour.  Whatever I do, a gazillion other people are doing too.  So, I am surprised to 'sense' that the great exodus from the south and the cities has yet to even show up on the radar screens of those I would consider most sensitive - MEN readers. 

From this thread, it would seem that no one thinks as I do and I may have discovered the one area in which I am different and not so ordinary and average after all.  Weird. 

practicalman45
#11 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:36:17 AM
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I moved, myself, twenty-some years ago. My move from California to Oregon had nothing to do with  climate change. I moved away from California to flee restrictive government, to escape the sales taxes I was supposed to charge while doing business there, to avoid  higher real estate prices than what should have been, and to escape the meddling govt. controls on all of my vehicles and on my business such as what sort of paint I'm allowed to use or not use, etc etc. ad nauseum. In Oregon, in a coastal mountain range valley, I found someplace that felt much better: I bought cheap property, I settled my business here with much less govt. meddling, and found a small community of freedom loving folks who were more tolerant of my lifestyle (independent, and self reliant, even if a bit eccentric...). People who don't seem to mind much if I have a collection of resources in my yard,  including a few dead vehicles, or whatever I want. People, actually, who really value me for my metalworking skills and resources. The other day I went to a wedding of some local friends, celebrated at their home, and including many from the local community.  A social event. We had a wonderful day. What blew my mind was how many folks came up and mentioned to me how important a contribution to the community my welding business was. That is why I'm here to stay, and glad I came here!

 

As far as is it getting hotter around here lately than it used to be?  I don't see it that way very much, not here locally, anyways.  Around 1990+/- we had  over 100 degreeF. days for more than a month straight here. We haven't had a summer like that here since...This past winter and spring have been rather cool, here, unusually so. More snow than normal. I think that things are always going to fluctuate. Fluctuations have been very wide in the past, even before industrialization, or the "petroleum age". Look up the "Medieval warm period" or "The Little Ice Age" on Google.  Read this article: http://www.amlibpub.com/essays/ipcc-global-warming-report.html 

I don't see anything really conclusive that has been presented as proof of human-caused Global Warming.

Does a warming trend, even if such actually exists, truly justify that we be forced to give up our freedoms, our economy, our sovereign governments, our way of life in the name of Global Government??  I don't think that it does. I am highly critical of the concept of Global Warming and all of the proposed political and economic-hardship solutions to it.

LaserBillA
#12 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:45:49 AM
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sjd wrote:
"Forgive me for summarizing it but it would seem that the basic answer is 'No.  It is not changing me.  Life goes on as usual with some not-too-inconvenient changes and additions'.  Í am certainly not making any major changes nor am I moving.'"


What I was trying to say is that there is NOTHING you can do by yourself. Even killing yourself will NOT help.

I agree with this guy in that we need a nation wide low loss direct current power grid.
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5798
Quote - "The next President must make a national low-loss electric grid an imperative. It will allow dispersed renewable energies to supplant fossil fuels for power generation. Technology exists for direct-current high-voltage buried transmission lines. Trunk lines can be completed in less than a decade and expanded, in a way analogous to interstate highways. "

A nation wide DC power grid would allow for carbon capture and low cost renewable energy.

As I see it we can all do a better job of becoming "independent" by staying in the safer urban areas and becoming energy producers. I calculate that I can generate $3000 per month by generating electricity and selling it to the power company under "net metering" using a concentrated solar thermal system.

Sarah/Librum
#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:57:53 PM
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LazerBillA:

A DC grid will increase, not decrease.  I suspect you have been a victim of miss-information.  By the time you get the power levels up to compensate for the DC losses, you will need at least ten times the production capacity.  If you have to increase the production at least ten fold, how can you have a smaller footprint?

Let me suggest you go do some research into the New York ConEdison DC net.  Look at the power they loose, and why...  And how many men have been lost due to arcing danger of DC over AC. 

As for net metering, I hate to bust your bubble, but it is a loss, not a gain.  While I am very much in favor of being independent, they have made metering a big mess.  Bureaucratic festooned, inflated materials costs, regulation encumbered, etc.  We power our enclave via hydro, massive amounts of it.  Did you know that if you produce excess power you MUST feed the grid, that is the federal law.  Now, you have to pay for the privilege.  

 

 

 

JD: Your questions?

 

Sarah

jd
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:37:07 PM
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Re Librum questions for Sarah..........I have a couple of discs.  They are an amazing compilation of knowledge but largely in a 'pdf.' style.  Hard to 'look up' stuff.  A search engine version is the answer, of course, but then it would have to be reformatted or rewritten in some way.  My questions are this: 1. have you compiled everything on two or three discs?  Is the offering still in multiple discs?  Is there way to 'scan for topics' other than the way in which I have done it - simply reading and looking as I go? 

Some of the Librum books are of little interest to me while others are of great interest.  The ones of great interest are the ones in which recipes and formulas are given.  Sadly, some of the language is old and the references are unfamilar (but written as if they should be familiar).  Plus, if a formula calls for tincture of ammonia or a pinch of gypsum salts (yes, I am making this up), I have no idea what that is nor where I might find some.  So the question is: is the librum able to put out a supplement that provides suppliers for some of the ingredients? 

I guess what I am saying is: I am a lazy, modern know-nothing and can't make sense of much of the knowledge in the books.  What would you suggest other than enrolling at MIT? 


LaserBillA
#15 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:16:31 AM
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>Sarah wrote
>Let me suggest you go do some research into the New York ConEdison DC net.  Look at the power they loose, and why...  And how many men have been lost due to arcing danger of DC over AC.

I'm not aware of any high voltage DC power lines in the DC area. The new DC power lines operate at voltages over 200,000 volts and there is a very successful one that runs from ND to here in MN.

See
Square Butte, Center, ND to Duluth, MN, 465 miles (250-kV DC)
CU Line, Underwood, ND to Delano, MN, 430 miles (400-kV DC)

As for safety: At voltages over 480 volts it does not matter if it is DC or AC since it will sustain an arc.

>Sarah wrote
> Did you know that if you produce excess power you MUST feed the grid, that is the federal law.  Now, you have to pay for the privilege. 

I've never seen any law that says you have to feed the grid with power you produce. If that was true then construction crews running generators would be in trouble.

davisonh
#16 Posted : Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:13:19 AM
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Hmm,yes the dc over ac controvery survives after 125 years(sigh)Edison would be proud!George Westinghouse won that fight with Edison over 110 years ago over how power was going to be transmitted around the world with the variable polarity versus fixed polarity issue.They just did'nt realize that technology has advanced so drastically in the last 100 years we electricians have to go back to school every 3 years for 15 hours just to keep up with the technology/legal issues with these advances.Photovolatics and alt. energy are very good examples.George and Tom did'nt realize that maybe someday any common home/landowner could generate their own electric power.Now dc at high voltages has a very large advantage over ac in the fact that dc does not generate a magnetic field around it's conductor like ac does at low frequencies.This can amount to huge line losses when transmitting massive amounts of power over long distances.This is a huge problem when switching large ac loads as bill knows because of what happens to that magnetic field when you break a 1000 A at  34,500 volts in a substation.The break causes that magnetic field surrounding the conductor to collapse instantly downstream resulting in a voltage of hundreds of thousands of volts and an arc  thats called 'flashover' which is quite loud,resembling a clap of thunder and eventual destruction of line quipment.DC does not 'flow' in the same way that ac does.The electrons in an ac circuit  tend to ride along the surface of a wire (take a compass and put it up against a lamp cord,you'll see what I mean)while electrons in a dc circuit flow through the middle of a wire.This means a lot when it comes to distributing large amounts of power.First off towers can be a lot lower and the wires placed underground.HV AC has to be shielded because of the extremely strong magnetic field surrounding the wire,since no magnetic field exists with dc conductors or is very minimal,.Rectifiers used to rectify ac to dc are semiconductors and have very small losses.Large dc transmission lines with ac inverters @ substations are going to be the way its going to be I'm thinking.DC transmission up to 2 or 3 million volts @ 200 to 300 amperes are going to be the norm soon.Yes one gets a collapsing magnetic field when breaking dc at that voltage but the collapse is in the conductor not on the surface of the conductor,more controlled arc I think thats what engineers are thinking.Just my guess..

davisonh
#17 Posted : Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:31:48 AM
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When it comes to electrical power I can assume( if it be my mistake) that scale is a problem when comparing what we generate to what Mother Earth generates.From readings and studies done in Florida and elsewhere in the world concerning lightning and other sources,what we generate is absolutley tiny,microscopic compared to what the Earth itself is capable of.From what we can assimilate it is known that the common garden variety afternoon summer thunderstorm(average being about 5 miles wide,6 miles high,10-11 miles long) is capable of supplying a town of 25,000 people with electrical power for a year.I think thats approximately 10,000,000  kwh of power!(10,000 MWH) Never mind the amount of water contained in one.Capturing and storing that power,well someone would be a wealthy man if they found a way to do it.Who knows what we'll dream up in the future!

Sarah/Librum
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:53:06 AM
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JD, my apologies, just back from a several day time spend at the clinic.  Bronchitis.  Back.

 "Re Librum questions for Sarah..........I have a couple of discs.  They are an amazing compilation of knowledge but largely in a 'pdf.' style.  Hard to 'look up' stuff.  A search engine version is the answer, of course, but then it would have to be reformatted or rewritten in some way.  My questions are this: 1. have you compiled everything on two or three discs?  Is the offering still in multiple discs?  Is there way to 'scan for topics' other than the way in which I have done it - simply reading and looking as I go? "

Um...  Six cds and nine dvds now...

No master index exists.  That was why Majere was Majere.  He remembered!

 
"Some of the Librum books are of little interest to me while others are of great interest.  The ones of great interest are the ones in which recipes and formulas are given.  Sadly, some of the language is old and the references are unfamilar (but written as if they should be familiar).  Plus, if a formula calls for tincture of ammonia or a pinch of gypsum salts (yes, I am making this up), I have no idea what that is nor where I might find some.  So the question is: is the librum able to put out a supplement that provides suppliers for some of the ingredients?"

They are called 'Receipt' books.

(Trying to control my giggling!)  If you will go go Lindays' books, you will find a book of the archane references, I think the title was reprinted as Lindsays Chemical Cross References.  Guess who wrote it.  For himself!!  That sale is still paying dividends towards the upkeep of the Librum site.  Then Penguin bought one and broke it into three, The Penguin Dictionary of Physics, The Penguin Dictionairy of Chemistry, and the Penguin Book of Geology (really a prospectors book).  And do not overlook Lees Priceless Recipes (rewritten to modern terms by Majere, sold by Lee Valley.)

"I guess what I am saying is: I am a lazy, modern know-nothing and can't make sense of much of the knowledge in the books.  What would you suggest other than enrolling at MIT?"

MIT is an option?  Wish somebody had told me that.  When I think of all the hours I could have saved.  Ah well.

 

 

 

In your case, my best suggestion would be to visit the site, make a list of the ones you want, by pervusing the freebie editions, contacting me with that list, and rest assured I will make a very good deal for you.

I would NOT suggest you hold out for when the two 'MacKenzie' books become available.  While I admit that Majere considered them the two missing volumes of his magnum opus 'Receipt' book collection, they are going to be large, and frankly, I do not know if the Librum site will survive that long.  (cry).

 

Sarah


 


Sarah/Librum
#19 Posted : Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:09:10 AM
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LaserBillA,

And your examples require such massive shielding that they are unpractical for most transport applications.  Alas.

As for the generator quip, I should have put in 'above a certain size'.  My bad on that one.

I am told that DC is the 'killer', with AC the 'safe'.  Argueable to me, but AC does make more transport capability sense to me.  (How would one 'dog-bone' a hpDC?  That boggles the mind...)

Davisonh,

I think you are thinking of Tesla vs Edison.  Westinghouse was actually neutral, with his shareholders behind AC (therefore Tesla).(Who was not an employee at the time BION).

.

My reaction to it all is still that nothing large will ever work.  Only a grass roots guerrila movement, with panel solar, teapot solar, or S wind turbines, again AT THE GRASS ROOT LEVEL, will ever work.  The politics and newly built in hastle factors are just too encumbered and encumbering. Just look at the last two editions to the NEC and see where the changes are.

(I love the little 3kw110ac teapot unit outside my window.  They say I am crazy, but I swear I hear it, a very soothing sound.)  Am I contributing to global warming with it?  I think not, as no fossil is being used, but some would say undoubtably yes.

Sarah

 

davisonh
#20 Posted : Friday, July 03, 2009 1:07:24 AM
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Sarah indeed,the NEC is heavily loaded with changes this past cycle;my cousin is the lead editor at the NFPA in Quincy Mass and has the lovely job of compling what the code-making panels decided on and making the legalese somewhat readable,as you know not an envious task when you peruse those pages.But,that means free codebooks for me,but makes a job for me when she freaks out about how decisons are made in nearly unreadable format and now understandable for me why I never will get near all those engineers at the panel conventions;my high school teachers were electrical inspectors who were on the panels.I agree that when it comes to heavy transmission,we will see a lot less heavy ac transmission but higher voltage lighter dc transmission.Yes if one gets hung up on dc of more than 50 volts,since there is no split second chance of jumping off the wire (when the rms voltage crosses the zero mark in ac) you stand less of a chance of getting off of it.Basically one is toast.But dc is more controllable than ac is,so one has to take the good with the bad.ac over 50 volts will kill one just as fast if not prepared for the split second zero-crossing mark.(at 60 cycle)

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MOTHER EARTH NEWS is the guide to living — as one reader stated — “with little money and abundant happiness.” Every issue is an invaluable guide to leading a more sustainable life, covering ideas from fighting rising energy costs and protecting the environment to avoiding unnecessary spending on processed food. You’ll find tips for slashing heating bills; growing fresh, natural produce at home; and more. MOTHER EARTH NEWS helps you cut costs without sacrificing modern luxuries.

At MOTHER EARTH NEWS, we are dedicated to conserving our planet’s natural resources while helping you conserve your financial resources. That’s why we want you to save money and trees by subscribing through our earth-friendly automatic renewal savings plan. By paying with a credit card, you save an additional $5 and get 6 issues of MOTHER EARTH NEWS for only $12.00 (USA only).

You may also use the Bill Me option and pay $17.00 for 6 issues.