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Agroterrorism? Options
skruzich
#1 Posted : Sunday, November 09, 2003 9:14:48 PM
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Sounds like that professor in san diego has been smoking too much of his students weed. But as far as the certs your talking about yes they fall under the bioterrorism act of 2002. I would say its going to become a absolute nightmare for anyone who has animals. I think that the agroterrorism is going beyond reality. If the terrorists were to infect our animals/food sources with something it would kill or show up in the anmial long before it were to enter our food supplies.
Secondly, how does the FDA plan to enforce the certs on PBP''s? Are they going to have agents running all over the state watching for folks driving down the road with a pig in the car?
Pseudorabies is a serious problem. It can happen even without terrorism. It can even happen in our dogs and cats, but it is from what i have read only dangerous to the animals.
I have dealt with sick animals alot. Mostly dogs, but have had other animals that I have had to nurse back to health or put down at times. I don''t think we have anything to worry about agroterrorism at least from outside of our country. We might have a problem with the Peta crowd or elf members.
CntryLvnGrl
#2 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2003 4:52:04 AM
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You know at one point I thought I was a pretty bright girl. But the more I search around and read the threads here, the more I expect Mad Jack and ''Ole #7 to come scream''n into the room yell''n .... "well ya green horn wha''da think your doing". lol

I know who the peta folk are... Those are the People Eating Tasty Animals aren''t they? Ok that was naughty. Really though what, are or is, an "elf memeber" Lord I hope I don''t come out look''n dumb as all get out w/ that question. Well Grandpa used to tell me that the only dumb question was the one you already knew the answer too.....

As to the agroterrorism and certificate of a negative blood test for pseudorabies, I know quite a few ppl in the farming comunity in my area (dairy farming). I will ask around and see if anyone has heard of this. I think your right skruzich it would be hard for them to track yet the department of agriculture can be rather tuff when it comes to their rules.
skruzich
#3 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2003 5:16:38 AM
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Elf= Earth liberation front, ALF=Animal liberation Front both are terrorist organizations as they bomb factories, businesses, destroy personal property if you happen to drive one of the autos they don''t approve of, ect. I am just waiting for one of them to try and set my SUV on fire, I would love some target practice hehe.
Anyway don''t feel bad about not knowing about them. They have been kinda kept low key for some reason, but they are utilizing terrorist activities to get their agenda across.
I know i was kinda naughty on the PETA hehe, just had to share it with ya, i got someone sending me a bumper sticker and a t-shirt! I just feel the need to instigate especially when they come to town to protest. hehe
steve
DanR
#4 Posted : Monday, November 10, 2003 2:28:24 PM
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Sheila:

Food disruptions from terrorism will most likely appear as a scare, such as Alar on apples. There are several plant viruses that if released would kill off the crop, wheat rust is th first to come to mind, and that could cause major problems. That is why it is best to grow your own and have a stock so you could survive on your own for two or more years. Will it happen? Yes. Where? Most likely in the third world where the resourses to fight it are lacking and where the propaganda war will be won when the people ther are shown how much "we" have that they do not. Although, with most of the corn being grown in the U.S. have a common ancestor, it will not be too hard for some "nut" to come up with a "blite" that will kill off most of it.
aeaea
#5 Posted : Sunday, November 23, 2003 2:32:10 AM
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There is some parisite killing ash trees. In michigan ash trees can no longer be sold or transported. Yes I know there are not a food source unless you are a termite (lol) but they are nice trees and a good source of hardwood.
ajortolani
#6 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2003 7:47:02 PM
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I think I''m getting paranoid in my old age, but am begginning to see "patterns" and am wondering about eco & agro terror. Mad Cow disease is real but with the out breaks of it these last couple of years it makes me wonder if it is terrorists'' "probing" & testing for weak spots, checking out some of their home-grown germs to see what kind of havoc it wreaks.
Agro terror is something to take seriously, it can destroy an economy, look at the economic destruction of Mad Cow in Britain & just the hint of it in Canada recently wreaked havoc.
When that sick-ass scientist began mailing out Anthrax "to demonstrate our vulnerability" it wreaked more havoc & instilled fear everywhere (...hence the onset of my paranoia!) Oh yes I do realise he is "innocent till proven guilty" but the evidence against him seems pretty darn good.
[xx(]
To poison our water supplies across this country...even just a few of them in a large city...will have 300 million citizens "running for the hills!" Result = Economic disaster.
How easy it is to terrorise our food system would take your breath away, especially since a great deal of our food is shipped in from other countries, the terrorists'' would not even have to be on our shores to succeed.
Am I paranoid or what[?]
A lot of the rules/procedures etc that are in effect to try to stop the spread of disease are really based on the presumption that honest people will adhere to them & try to follow them so as not to help spread them. But it only takes one nut job to terrorise.
skruzich
#7 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2003 11:20:29 PM
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Yes it seems like it would be easy AJ, but what we as citizens do NOT want to do is get so paranoid, and scared that we allow our government to take complete control.
We don''t need more government control/protection, what we need is to make sure we use common sense in what we do. Make sure we know our food sources, water sources and have backups in case it does get attacked and contaminated.
Majere''s idea makes more and more sense now. Keep enough grain (1 year supply) in storage should keep a family in case of contamination and allow for enough time for cleanup. Water is another thing. I don''t know how long we can keep water in storage containers before changing out. I wouldn''t necessarily be affected as I am on a well.

STeve
dropkick
#8 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2003 8:34:18 AM
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You can store water indefinately if you treat it.

Use a chlorine bleach that contains 5.25 percent sodium hypochlorite. Don''t use bleach with soaps or scents.

Two drops bleach per quart.
Four drops bleach per 1/2 gallon.
Eight drops bleach per gallon.
(you can substitute liter for quart above, if you''re using pop bottles for storage)

8 drops = 1/8 teaspoon
16 drops = 1/4 teaspoon
32 drops = 1/2 teaspoon
64 drops = 1 teaspoon
192 drops = 1 Tablespoon
384 drops = 1/8 cup or 2 Tablespoons

Stir the water and allow it to stand for 30 minutes. You should be able to smell chlorine after the 30-minute waiting period. If you can''t, add another dose and let the water stand another 15 minutes.

Store containers in a cool, dry place away from direct sunlight. Because most plastic beverage containers degrade over time, store them away from heat and light to prevent leakage. Store water in plastic containers away from gasoline, kerosene, pesticides or similar substances because vapors from these products can penetrate plastic.
skruzich
#9 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2003 4:04:02 PM
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Hey Dropkick, Thanks. I was wondering though if there would be another way to store water without using chlorine. I am allergic to it, heh, the other day i took a shower at a friends house and damn near choked to death when it sprayed into my face. My sinuses swelled up and eyes stayed blood red for two days.
Would collidal silver purify the water? Just wondering.
steve
ajortolani
#10 Posted : Monday, December 22, 2003 5:31:35 PM
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Wow Steve, that sounds horrible...don''t bathe in Colorado then.
If I bought a gallon bottle of water without breaking the seal, would it still be ok in 5 years?
What if it was on the shelf down in a basement or buried or something?
I thought only sunlight will harm the water which is why I''m asking.
[:)]
skruzich
#11 Posted : Tuesday, December 23, 2003 12:50:53 AM
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Aj, I used to live in colorado, used to go dippin in the colorado river in the winter time. ;) Ever heard of grand junction? Got all kinds of hot springs in the river there around Eagle, and Grandjunction and Rifle too. Used to be a hot spring coming up out of the ground in rifle, everyone would just go there and jump in with snow on the ground.

ajortolani
#12 Posted : Tuesday, December 23, 2003 1:05:21 AM
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Anytime I went to Denver, the bath water was blue - looked just like a pool!
The hubby lived in Rifle, Co for a few years.
JFS
#13 Posted : Tuesday, December 23, 2003 8:17:38 AM
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I work in the food industry. We take food safty very seriously. Even before the Feds got involved. The ingrediants are certified and tested. Samples taken and tested of finised goods. We live in different world since 9/11.
ajortolani
#14 Posted : Tuesday, December 23, 2003 3:25:12 PM
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JFS, what products do you produce, I think I''ll stick to those ones[;)]
dropkick
#15 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2003 3:47:32 PM
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Ajortolani,
If your bottled water doesn''t have a experation date on it it should be ok indefinately.
A few different thoughts on sunlight:
Sunlight will actually purify water (for 1 to 2 days), but in the long run it also promotes the growth of plant life which will make the water unclean - though if the water is sanitized and in a sealed container there should be no plant life in it to grow.
Sunlight can also degrade your container, so I would recommend darkness or shade.

Steve,
1)You could boil the water (at least 10 minutes) and then put it in a sterilized container (basically can the water).
2)You could use a 2% tincture of liquid iodine (1st aid kit iodine). Just add 8 drops to one quart of water and let it sit for fifteen minutes before drinking. Make sure it is fresh iodine, since it has a short shelf life. Iodine water should not be used by pregnent women.
3)Use USP-grade resublimed iodine crystals (ask druggest). A small pinch of iodine crystals can be re-used almost indefinitely for water purification. Put the crystals in a one-ounce bottle with water and warm it up to body temperature for 10 minutes until the water is saturated with iodine. Then add 8 drops of the water (but not the crystals) to every quart of water. Wait 15 minutes before you drink.
4)Let the bleached treated water sit opened for 24 hours till the chlorine disapates before drinking.

That''s about all I can think of for inexpensive sterilization for storage.


Sheila
#16 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2003 3:47:32 PM
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Posts: 134,494
So, last night we were at our monthly potbellied pig club meeting and we had a veterinarian as our guest speaker. She was telling us that the feds have become quite concerned about agroterrorism, and that if we plan to transport our pigs, we need to have a certificate of a negative blood test for pseudorabies or our pigs can be confiscated. This is the case apparently both within one's own state or in interstate transport. (The feds class PBPs as livestock, even though many cities recognize them as pets). The new regulations, though, don't specify for how long a certificate is valid.

So I guess my question is, how concerned are you guys about "agroterrorism?"

As an aside, there's a professor here in San Diego who's suggested that the patterns of our recent fires in CA are "consistent with terrorism."
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