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Manual Hand Tools Options
mikeg
#1 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2003 4:02:28 PM
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Your standard planes and drills and bits hammers and chisels should not be a problem. Most of the speciality equipment was also made by the craftsmen themselves or fashoned by other craftsmen.
lunailoniafaer
#2 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2003 4:07:05 PM
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>>Are old-school hand tools still made, or am I 100 years too late?
You get that feeling too?

"Whoa guys- I''m about..(looks at watch) 150 years late??!"

Check out www.lehmans.com - I get quite a bit of kitchen tools from them, they are a tad spendy (okay, *very*) but sometimes if it''s what you''ve been looking for, it''s reasonable- considering you''ll never have to replace it!

andydufresne
#3 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2003 5:16:56 PM
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Yes I am a pirate
200 years too late
The cannons don''t thunder
there''s nothing to plunder
I''m an over 40 victim of fate
Arriving too late
Arrving too late.-Jimm Buffett-PIRATE LOOKS AT FORTY
FilthyK
#4 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2003 7:48:29 PM
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Posts: 134,494
quote:
Originally posted by andydufresne

Yes I am a pirate
200 years too late
The cannons don''t thunder
there''s nothing to plunder
I''m an over 40 victim of fate
Arriving too late
Arrving too late.-Jimm Buffett-PIRATE LOOKS AT FORTY



Not much of a Buffett fan, but that''s too funny!

Not much luck with Lehmans, but isn''t there a catalog I heard someone mention that''s aimed at the Mennonite/Amish market?
pate20135
#5 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2003 8:59:22 PM
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Posts: 134,494
That is Lehmans. http://www.lehmans.com/
Or Cumberland. http://www.cumberlandgeneral.com/
Specials are locally made.
What is thee looking for? I don''t recognise ''Underhill''.

Pate

FilthyK
#6 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2003 9:46:57 PM
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Posts: 134,494
quote:
Originally posted by pate20135

That is Lehmans. http://www.lehmans.com/
Or Cumberland. http://www.cumberlandgeneral.com/
Specials are locally made.
What is thee looking for? I don''t recognise ''Underhill''.

Pate





Here''s the link... http://www.pbs.org/wws/howto/tools.html

Roy Underhill being the stodgy-looking man in the top left corner. And I am interested in old-fashioned wood-working tools like the ones he lists. I would like to be able to make simple furniture and cabinets without having to use electricity. Not to mention, there''s a wealth of old-school tricks that shouldn''t die off just because we have power tools available.

I don''t want to live in a world that assumes there will be power available at all times. Since I need to start honing my homesteading skills now, and I do enjoy making stuff from wood at present (nothing fancy, just shelves and desks with 2 x 4''s and 3/4" planks), I want to learn how to do mortise-and-tenon, dove-tails, biscuit-joins, etc. like they did back in the day... using the same tools.

BTW, Cumberland General has some neat stuff. I gotta get me a stove-pipe hat, man! [:)][8D][:p]
pate20135
#7 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2003 11:48:26 PM
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Posts: 134,494
OK, now I think I understand. And appreciate. While we produce our own power here at the Librum, most of our tradesmens work is not powered. Our Amana sept is our skilled tradesmen.

The tools are locally made. By the craftsman who wants them. Or contracted to the smith by the woodworker (rare!).

I did a mennonite mini apprenticeship in my youth in several wood working aspects, not all, I am sorry to admit. I had to make my own tools. All do. Still have them. Not the best, as I was just apprenticing long enough to get a taste. The breast drill bit almost ''flunked'' me. Why a ''mini''? As the Gnostic, I am supposed to be a jack of trades when it comes to skills, but not allowed to work any, as my purpose is to preserve knowedge. Rest assured, such skills will not be lost as long as my kind exist.

My apprenticeship tools are iron, with carbonized ends, standard everyday ''layman'' forge work. Handled with whatever material I had at hand. There is always some ''cross training''. You learn some forgework. There are also other skills one learns.

My first general suggestion to a ''newcomer'' is to grab a copy of Readers Digest "Back to Basics: How to Learn and Enjoy Traditional American Skills", 0-895-77086-5, at the local library. I do not suggest thee buy one. I think it is over priced. We sell them at our ''tourist trap'' country store to the touristas for $45.

You get a good tool description set, and several projects to get started. Mortice-and-tenion, dovetails, etc are in it. And yes, there is a dovetailed upen cupboard project there. Then go from there.

BTW: Biscuit is a modern thing. And while there are now manual gouges for such, they came after the power ones.

BTW: all the tools I saw at that site were commercialy available. I saw no specialty tools, like mortice chisels, or Streudel drills, etc. That site did not impress me, sorry.

A ''stove pipe hat''? Tourista!

take care,

Pate
dropkick
#8 Posted : Saturday, June 21, 2003 4:48:48 AM
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Posts: 134,494
Hey, speaking of older style tools, does anyone have a lead on where I might get an adze (flat blade) that doesn''t cost an arm and a leg?
The cheapest I have been able to find have been at least $60 and that seems a bit much to me.

P.S. am also looking for an inexpensive broad axe/hatchet
majik
#9 Posted : Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:18:20 AM
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Try looking at Lee Vallet Tools (www.leevalley.com). They are a fine company with good customer service. If they don'' have the tools you are looking for, check out their books. They have re-printed or a re selling re-prints of a number of old(er) building and woodworking mags and books.
pate20135
#10 Posted : Sunday, June 22, 2003 1:44:04 AM
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Posts: 134,494
Dropkick,

This is another case of ''different worlds''. Adzes and broadheads are standard fare here. My apprentice tools included several of both. As to the price, seems fair to me, but then again, ours are custom made. Broadheads are almost always custom made to the person, here. I wonder if thee is really wanting a ''sharvin'', which is a short handled combination of both a severe angled ''off ground'' adze and stalf mounted ''english'' broadhead. It is used for ''timber'' or ''log'' construction. Actually a very dangerous tool, in inexperienced hands.

As to the site, no offence, but was not impressed.

Take care,

Pate
macloudd
#11 Posted : Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:21:52 AM
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Posts: 134,494
While I firmly believe in and support the use of power tools"More power!grunt grunt grunt"I also collect and know how to use alot of the"Old-School hand tools"Roy Underhill was my hero several years back.When I was building my home I used alot of his techniques when working with the logs.I made a few of the tools I needed to notch the logs and such.I have found that flea markets usually have a good selection of the old hand tools.I don''t know what a good price is on those types of items,but I do know with a few hundred bucks and/or some trading stock you will have nearly every tool you should ever need.
FilthyK
#12 Posted : Sunday, June 22, 2003 7:09:08 PM
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TOURISTA!? [:0]

Bah, you know not who talk of, Pate! I am reknowned amongst those who know me for not taking vacations. I just pick up an move to other places every 3 or 4 years, so I can experience life as a local instead. [:D]

As for "being impressed" by the site, I thought it gave a decent overview for those of us just starting out. Can''t say it''s in My Favorites, though...

Majic, thanks for the link. Lee Valley seemed to have some decent prices and selection. I will check out some books first.
pettie
#13 Posted : Sunday, June 22, 2003 7:33:23 PM
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I can attest to the customer service of Lee Valley . EXCELLENT. for 22 years, it''s where I did most of my ex''s christmas shopping and I have to say that if all mail order companies were like Lee Valley, I''d never have left the house !!

pate20135
#14 Posted : Sunday, June 22, 2003 10:33:38 PM
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Posts: 134,494
Tourista is our humourous term for ''english tourist''. Usually humourous, but tone can also indicate a ''undesireable''. I was using it in the humourous form.

We are open to tourism, and generally welcome such, but there are types that we don''t like to visit. In thy case, we would welcome, we have loads of hats, just stop at the tourist trap store and leave the wallet. (grin).

Take care,

Pate
coastal hermit
#15 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2003 12:53:44 AM
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Apologies - this is a bit ''out of this thread''....but, as you all know, I have been trying to think out the most logical way to make stone steps without having to carry bags of reddi-mix on my shoulder while my wife carries the water. Hard work is fine - if you have to. Hard thinking often works better. Anyway, I was half-way in between the two (hard whining and hard complaining) and an old friend offered up his chain-saw powered, diamond bladed saw. Claims it will cut right through granite like it was, well, still granite - but ''cuttable'' granite. Seems, you fire this puppy up and then Mt. Rushmore is the limit. Anybody ever worked one of these? Forgive me, Pate....yours is the opinion I would normally seek (and thanks again for the Anti info) but this item is OOM non-conforming. Pistons and gasoline. My thoughts were to ''cut the step out of the granite and, where the blade couldn''t finish the cut, use a cold chisel or Anti.
As for Lee Valley? Good products (not great, but good). Great service. Very convenient. To get the best in hand tools, visit Pate or hunt the junkyards. I have an old logging equipment salvager near me. They are ''old time'' bulls of the woods. Phoenix Equipment of Delta, BC.....ask for Stan or Bob.....they have more good stuff than you could ever find the hard way. But they are ''old school''. No website and short on ''customer service'' unless the request is a challenge and quirky. Stan is the ''old grizzled expert'' and Bob is the younger grizzled expert. Expect gruff and abrupt. 604-940-1421
macloudd
#16 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2003 2:26:59 AM
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Posts: 134,494
Sounds like a Partner saw to me hermit,and your friend is correct,it will cut like he says.Make sure you have plenty of filters for your dust mask and you may want to invest in several of those throw-away coveralls,you are gonna make alot of dust!You will need to have some good rock chisels and hand sledge hammers for breaking out the slabs you will create.Good luck!
skruzich
#17 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2003 2:47:46 AM
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Posts: 134,494
Sounds like a whole lot of work to me ;) :D
dropkick
#18 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2003 7:55:10 AM
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Posts: 134,494
I was wrong, they aren''t old style tools, what they are is specialty tools.
While I have never used either of these tools, I grew up using an ax, and did not think that once I got used to it there would be much difference.
What I am looking for is some hand tools for squaring up logs and for chiseling out notches. I have been using my trusty double bitted ax for notching up till now, and it that has always been a problem, as it is not designed for this use. I am planning to be doing a quite a bit more log work than usual, and so want to get the right tools.

My problem with the prices is that looking at them I think ax and mattock--- ok.. a specialty ax and the mattock is for wood... but still I have never paid half that amount for either one of these tools.
pate20135
#19 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:08:43 AM
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Hermit,
The diamond (and carbide) saws I have used in the (english owned) mines in Georgia, and my percieved fault against them has already been covered, the ''thermals'' in the stone. The type of heat produced does funny things in stone. I generally advise avoiding such, as it does damage the stone. In fact, when used in those mines, when such a cut was made, when there was no other choice, was to intentionally include ''waste'' space, in the block. The ''heated'' stone just did not wear well, and for ethical reasons, would not be sold.

Normally such waste would be crushed and made into ''planters slabs''.

If wearability, and looks are unimportant, with speed being primary, that might be the way to go for thee. Understand that in a few years, thee will need to ''patch'', so save some of that dust to mix with a binder.

And yes, thee will need ''cutting clothes''. This may strike some folks as funny, but they were generally bib coveralls, and noting else. I repeat, nothing else. That sharp sand gets into the most uncomfortable spaces. And yes, a lot of antipresperant was used. Did not want to have areas of the body trapping and holding the grit. Yes, there were females on the teams in those mines. Usually ''black mommas'' (not being racist, they are good folks, and I respect them, and can they do an honest days work!) My curiosity got the better of me, so I asked. They shave, and wear a ''cup'', not unlike the old menstrual cups.

And please, be very carefull. Those saws are DEADLY. The slightest kickback, and...
(Memories are not always good, and I have some of those taking limbs, or worse...)
(One flashback is a split head, and this man was very experienced.)

-----

Dropkick.

Something I have observed in the last couple of years. The ''notchers'' have started taking to those ''firestorm'' and the like battery powered sawsalls. With one foot blades. Traditionally they used shivs (a four inch or better broad flat razor sharp lead dipped wood chisel), crossshivs (same but ''side'' ground with striking edge) and maullocks (round and squared wood headed hammers). I have also observed that they carry at least a dozen of the battery packs for a days work. But such would be better in the hands of a layperson (on offence intended) than a sharvin, for safety if nothing else. I know, not ''hand tool'', but food for thought. And the darn things are just too handy in a homesteading environment. I have a 14.4v ''Firestorm'' drill and sawsall myself. Used the drill today at the school to help set the pegholes for the the childrens cloak rack at the school. Had my breast drill, but I guess I am getting lazy in my advancing years.

Sometimes I think I should shut down the hydro power plant, it is making me lazy.

I may have asked before, I don''t recall, so I will again, does thee have a real blacksmith nearby? Or at least a forgeworker who will let the ''rub shoulders''? Hereabouts, if they have not made such, they will do so, just to learn how to make a new tool. We have gotten several tools just this way, for free. Or fire up your own! It really does not take much. And I can vouch that I have modified many a standard tool to a specialty tool on a small ''barbeque'' charcoal fired forge. Have two. And the enclave has bigger coal eating monsters. Oh, if thee does have such folk in the area, look or ask for a ''forge'' book, where they draw the design, and keep notes. A real tradesman will have such and will have no objection to letting you see it, it shows his craft in the best light, and is a good ''wishbook'' or ''ideabook''. I had a dozen or so at one time, but lost them in a Librum power-play, they are now in Indiana. (And I admit I could manage a few tears at that loss)

Take care,

Pate

coastal hermit
#20 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:29:51 AM
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Posts: 134,494
Librum power-play? Oooms? Is nothing sacred?
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