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majere
#41 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2003 10:02:15 PM
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Posts: 134,494
Agreed, thanks for sharing that.

Hermit, earlier I mentioned using a lawnmower powered unit to keep a refridgerator working. Perhaps that may be a better solution for your applications, especially with the newer higher output alternators. Let me describe the one I used, perhaps it will give some ideas.

On a ''dolly'', one of the movers type, with two tires, a ladder rack, and shelf on bottom. On the shelf is a horizontal shaft B&S engine, with an automotive alternator (60w?) just above. The shaft of the engine is woodruff keyed. A pully was placed on that shaft, and sized to optimize the rpm requirements of the alternator, with engine at ''idle''. Simple ratio math. Then above that is a small homebuilt welded gas tank, and above that are three marine batteries, and above that, a dc-ac inverter. All on shelves welded to the rack of the dolly. In the ''center'' of the rack is a volt meter. If thee keeps an eye on the guage, thee won''t ''eat'' a battery(s). A later update had a ''low voltage'' relay that restarted the electric start engine. There were drawbacks to this, 1) the thing had a tendency to tip over, 2) I had to restake ground whereever it went, 3) Engine heat did convect through the metal frame, I later had to insulate the battery cases due to this, and the fuel tank got quite warm.

It did have enough power to juice the 5hp air compressor and the refer at the same time.

Considering the ''tipping'' and your terrain, perhaps it would be better to build off (and up from) a lawn mower, if thee can weld up such. A ''box'' above with room for three batteries and the inverter. Alternator on the bed. But I think thee may have trouble finding a ''keyed'' shaft engine.

We are still using lanterns here, even though the wiring is complete. Simply better on the eyes. But my good wife fired up the electric stovetop for the first time. Yes, a huge power waster, but with this hydro I have power to burn, and she prefers electric. I also have to finish the dichrome wire heater work.

Take care,

Majere

skruzich
#42 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:07:38 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Hi,
Art Bell, is a individual who lives in Nevada about 30 miles away from area 51, and his studio overlooks area 51. He is a interesting ole soul who delves in extraterrestrials and unexeplained phenomena.
Some people think he is nuts, I just think he is entertaining enough to get me to listen to him at 11pm est.

Majere, I prefer the propane for cooking, It seems to bake better and heats quickly and doesn''t cost as much. BUT i guess if your getting electric for little to no cost, then it makes better sense to use electric instead of buying propane.
steve
jdcox
#43 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:51:13 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Thanks again, guys. I will consider this.......and get back.
majere
#44 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:25:42 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Little to no cost? Not so. I calculated this plant at $20k. Not counting my labor, and a lot of that!

The kicker was that it would have cost me more than that to run the lines in. That is not counting the upgrade of the road for the pole setting equipment that I would have had to pay for, swaged at over $50k. And the $2-300 a month bill. Buried lines would have been even more expensive, and I really did not want poles despoiling this site.

As for cooking, I still prefer an old wood stove. But we don''t have one here. (And she does not want another one.) We do have this huge ''russian'' furnace, but I hope not to have to use it. And such is not much good for cooking. (smile).

Now, the only concession to ''fuel economy'' we have is the two ammonia refridgerators. And that is simply because she prefers the quiet nature of such (does not use a noisy compressor). I liked them as they were multifuel (20lb propane tank will run one for about a week.)

I am still thinking about converting another of the ''lower'' rooms into a walk in refrigerator and a walk in freezer. There is no rush though. Gotta get these classes finished, and ''in the can''. Then perhaps I will look into that more.

Considering where thee is, Steve, has thee looked into ''placer'' gas production?

Take care,

Majere
skruzich
#45 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2003 2:07:29 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Ok majere, I am running for the dogpile search engine to look up placer gas production hehe. I will answer you when i find out what you are talking about.

I didn''t realize you had 20k in this electrical system. Ouch! I was thinking about looking into building a wind type collector to drive a generator. Not sure what it will take though. I hear though that they are about 10k.
Might be worth while if i figure in the cost of electric over a 10 year period. heck this summer i have had 285 dollar a month electric bills.
There has to be a better way.

I am trying to get my sons to commit to going in with me and buying 20 -30 acres of land somewhere in the woods, and turn it into a self sufficient farm and when each one of us gets ready to settle down and live on it then we each get together and help build everyones house, and carve up the land between us. My idea also was to have 5 acres or so as a growing area for all of us combigned, and even design the site so that we have a bit of privacy from each other but close enough that we know if one or another is in trouble. I am thinking to when i get older and if i have a serious health problem they could actually hear me yell for help or a horn device or something.
If we combign our money sources, we could pay it off rather quickly, (4 -5 years) and this will defeat the bankers in the insane indebtedness they keep us in.
I don''t know if this will every happen but I will work as hard as i can to try and make it happen.
TTYL
steve
skruzich
#46 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2003 2:12:53 AM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Ok majere, I understand what placer gas production is, how would it pertain to me? I don''t know of any natural gas pockets around where i am.
Now we have placer gold in the rivers here, just hard to get to them with all the problems with landowners along the rivers. Lately these land owners think they own the river, and are prohibiting people to go down the rivers if it crosses their property. I had one fella try to have me arrested because i canoed down the Etowah and it went through his property, and i was fishing out of the canoe. He held me at gunpoint for a hour before the law showed up and rescued me.
I don''t know what goes through peoples minds these days, They obviously are not educated if they think they can prevent a person from going down a federally owned river.
steve
majere
#47 Posted : Friday, September 26, 2003 6:58:29 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494

Now closer to $25k. Not complaining. Nothing compared to what I was looking at to bring in the commercial stuff. No, no complaints at all. Might have a few during the first winter with it, I am still no certain if I calculated the freeze down levels right.


???

Ach! Language barrier again. We call ''producer'' gas ''placer'' gas.

Pitchy woods, like pine, have more ''octane'' in the gas produced, but less gas production, and also a lot messier. (flipping up a second browser screen, hitting the index, doing a quick search. Mother #27, #70, #71, & #78. And smaller bingos.) And Mother built a truck running on such a system. One gassifies the wood, then burns the gas.

Also, is there not also a a methane production plant near thee? I seem to recall an article on one. It sticks in my memory as they were selling in 20lb propane jugs, first time I had seen such.

Majere
skruzich
#48 Posted : Friday, September 26, 2003 7:13:19 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
Hmm i will have to look into that. I will see if i can locate those issues, and read up on them.
steve
jdcox
#49 Posted : Friday, September 26, 2003 7:13:19 PM
Rank: Guest

Posts: 134,494
I am about to invest in a PV system. My 'expert' tells me that the genset backup to buy is the Honda 3500 as it is quiet and puts out a 'cleaner' electricity. He feels that a 600 watt array will suffice. I have no real idea of anything electric. To me, it is the mystery of the universe and I am willing to leave it that way. But my question is: are there any off-the-gridders who have a PV + genset system and, if so, what tips do you have? I understand the basic system and components (well, I understand the names and where they go in the system, anyway) but I am going 'minimalist' on the juice.....just lights and computer and battery charger. I think that - given that there will be more than enough ability to 'charge' (PVs AND genset), then the real determinant of the system is the number of batteries? Yes, no? Of course, usage is the REAL factor but given that I will drain little and then -for a power tool - drain a lot once in awhile - wouldn't more batteries be the key.....like a bigger cistern of water for when the guests come over?
I have seen every system you can imagine, each cobbled together over the years. From car alternators in streams to giant windmills that will disintegrate in a good wind. I have seen the 'rich' guys systems too. 10000 watt array backed up by two 20Kw diesel gensets (family of 4). It's hard to get a perspective.
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