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JustJim
#41 Posted : Monday, May 12, 2008 9:09:23 PM
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I am most disappointed in MEN for publishing this tripe.  The author's comment, "I live in the wrong country," sums up his article perfectly.  I suggest that he look for the "right" country where private property will not be a burden to him.  There are any number of "People's Republics" which ban private property; surely, one of those would satisfy him.

My wife and I, although not large landowners, own 45 acres in Missouri.  It has been a struggle to keep scum from the local towns invading our property, particulary during hunting season.  They shoot at anything that moves, litter, dump trash, and, in general, are quite vocal about their "right" to enjoy OUR property.  Fortunately, extensive damage to their vehicles over the past few years has dissuaded most of them from returning.  Luddite squirrels, I can only guess.

The "rights" cited in this article are a mere step away from enjoying the "right" to a stranger's purse or house (purse-snatchers/burglars); the right to enjoy a stranger's body (rapist/molester), or the "right" to help someone out of this life if that person were in the way of the perpetrator's enjoying all of his/her "rights" (murder).

The situation has deteriorated to the point where both the wife and I felt compelled to obtain Concealed Carry Permits.  Thanks to those who feel a "right," to enjoy another's property--such as the author of this crap--we no longer leave the house unless we are "carrying."  We are both ex-military, well-trained, and seldom miss.

Shame on MEN for publishing this article, encouraging criminal behavior, and putting lives at  risk (trust me: trespass here, and your life is at risk!).

Sadly,

Jim

 

 

Sarah/Librum
#42 Posted : Monday, May 12, 2008 10:03:10 PM
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Posts: 134,494
Oh how sad.

Well, if one tresspasses on an enclave or community, it is on them.  Normally there are no signs, or fences, but you will be caught.  And you will see jail.  And you will see court.  And if discourteous, you will be 'encouraged' by the Millian to be so until the counties 'rescue squad' arrives to treat your injuries and transport you to the hospital/jail.

Sarah
JustJim
#43 Posted : Monday, May 12, 2008 10:32:27 PM
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Posts: 134,494

Dear Sarah,

What the heck is a "Millian?"  My wife and I constitute neither a "community or enclave."  Instead, we are merely aging "Baby Boomers."  Is it too much to think that what is ours should be ours?  As  old folks, we're not about to go "mano-a-mano" with the riffraff of the world.  A .45 automatic equalizes many things. 

Wishing you well,

JustJim

HockeyFan
#44 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:28:17 PM
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Posts: 134,494
Scotmcmc wrote:
Allan -

then he said to me, "No one should have the right to keep something so beautiful all to themselves."


I have similar feelings, but at the same time, I keep coming back to where does this stop?  If you like a certain view, what's to stop someone saying "I want to come in your apartment because I don't believe you should be able to keep the view from your balcony to yourself"?

So on the 4th of July, if there's a fireworks display, people in skyscrapers just have to give up their rights because they have the best views and other people want to enjoy those views?

At some point, a person has to have the right to private property.  If someone else wants to enjoy that beautiful view, they need to work hard and get property of their own so that they can enjoy it.

 


Earth Home Project:
www.freewebs.com/stocktonunderground

 

wsmith
#45 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2008 7:49:41 PM
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Posts: 134,494
Jim,

As for your post about men posting this... notice in my post, I said, "if you get violent" as for using my weapons. I will NOT harm people for just coming on the land... I had a man and his son riding a "new to them" (very old) motorcycle on the land 3 days ago. I stopped them. I said, and I quote myself "This is private property, we don't allow anyone back here". He asked why...  A very fair question! My response, "We are an organic farm and I can't allow oil or gas products to be spilled ANYWHERE on the land". His response, This motorcycle doesn't leak, I checked it myself. My response, "I can't take that chance. What happens if youhit a stump and pull out a line? You're leaking on my land and thus have ruined ALL chances I have of getting certified organic." His only response was, "When are ya'll gonna have veggies for us?". we talked about that for a few seconds, the man and his son said goodbye and they rode off.  I am NOT a violent man, and am also ex-military. I never go on the land without a weapon though. Reason for this... This area has wild dogs... It's that simple.

At the end of the post I typed, I will protect my family and farm... Would you let your son be beaten by a trespasser? I don't think so.

In closing, I believe my statements were made clear... If you weren't talking about my post, I apologize, and please disregard.
Sarah/Librum
#46 Posted : Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:41:32 AM
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Posts: 134,494
"What the heck is a "Millian?" 

Millian, one of the septs of us OOM.  Old Order Mennonite.  Closed community type.  Millian are the 'public servants'.  This could be fire, rescue, the school matron, the librarian (waving), and POLICE.  The 'protectors'.  Think of Hoss of the tv show Pondersa.  Big, not too sharp, but very she-bear protective.

"A .45 automatic equalizes many things."

No doubt, but we disparage 'short arms'.  Rifles and shotguns.  And we have our Millians. 




This tread makes me think that English have 'made their bed again'.  And while I am not so educated as many here, I do have one question popping up in my mind.  If this 'tresspass right' exists, then it always did.  And if it always did, how did roads come into existance?

Sarah
scott
#47 Posted : Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:08:04 AM
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wsmith wrote:
At the end of the post I typed, I will protect my family and farm...
 
Actually, your wife made you add a retraction stating that you do NOT protect your livestock and by your more recent post, you have yet to be able to keep off trespassers.  But at least you carry a gun and seldom miss.  Maybe you should actually shoot more!
wsmith
#48 Posted : Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:55:44 PM
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Posts: 134,494
I said we don't kill them for attacking our chickens. :)  I don't have to protect the goats from predators. Kodi (our great pyrenese) does that for us. She's already killed 2 coyotes that got into the field (we still don't know how they got in) and the foxes aren't stupid enough to go near her. lol

If Kodi were to be overpowered and I was around, I would shoot, as the goats are an endangered species. Both times that Kodi killed them was at night, when I'm asleep. We now have 3 dogs, and the 2 younger are learning the protection game. They stay in the field with the goats.

As far as keeping the trespassers off, you're right. It's one heck of a battle... I've NEVER had to use a weapon on a trespasser... I've had some get mad, but they've never gotten violent. I thank god for that everytime. Keeping them off is about to get a LOT easier though. Yesterday, a gate went up on the main path into our land. To get on now, they have no choice but to cut the chain or lock, and that's not trespassing anymore. Most people won't go that far. There's only one more entrance that can be used, so only one more gate is needed, or we can just barbwire that one, as we never have a use for it. Nor does our neighbor that it joins. Once that's in place, people will actually have to break criminal laws to get on our property. So the trespassing SHOULD stop. At least that's the hope.
HockeyFan
#49 Posted : Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:02:12 PM
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Posts: 134,494

Protective dogs are a good thing.  It's also good to have a couple of geese.  They are pretty territorial and if they get a beek on you, they can leave quite a whelp.  They hurt.

 


Earth Home Project:
www.freewebs.com/stocktonunderground

 

martingr
#50 Posted : Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:38:20 PM
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Posts: 134,494

I would not suggest that a weapon be draw on anyone unless your life is in danger nor would I sic my dog on anyone. To do so puts you in a postition of being arrested, sued, going to jail, and losing your pistol permit. I would however suggest that you make sure your property is posted in accordance with the law, this allows for law enforcement who sees someone other than the owners to stop and question them and if they are tresspassing without written permission from you to be arrested for trespass. You can also put notice in the local newspaper that your property is posted and you will proscute. We pay lots of taxes, some of that money is used to protect us, I say let the the police handle this they are trained so let them do their job. We have the Sheriff Patol up here, they are out and about so have a pretty good handle on things in their local. A freindly wave, and introducing yourself puts you on their radar screen so if there is trouble they have a heads up. Also if you own a lot of propety and these guys are hunters, let them have access to your land. One other law enforcement up here are Conservation officers, they have power of arrest just like the State Police and The Sheriffs.

                                                                    Gary

 

martingr
#51 Posted : Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:40:09 PM
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Posts: 134,494

I would not suggest that a weapon be draw on anyone unless your life is in danger nor would I sic my dog on anyone. To do so puts you in a postition of being arrested, sued, going to jail, and losing your pistol permit. I would however suggest that you make sure your property is posted in accordance with the law, this allows for law enforcement who sees someone other than the owners to stop and question them and if they are tresspassing without written permission from you to be arrested for trespass. You can also put notice in the local newspaper that your property is posted and you will proscute. We pay lots of taxes, some of that money is used to protect us, I say let the the police handle this they are trained so let them do their job. We have the Sheriff Patol up here, they are out and about so have a pretty good handle on things in their local. A freindly wave, and introducing yourself puts you on their radar screen so if there is trouble they have a heads up. Also if you own a lot of propety and these guys are hunters, let them have access to your land. One other law enforcement up here are Conservation officers, they have power of arrest just like the State Police and The Sheriffs.

& Gary

 

wsmith
#52 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2008 1:58:18 AM
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Posts: 134,494
Indeed Gary. Indeed. That's pretty much what the judge said (my wife's boss and family friend). Kodi and the 2 pups are in the goat field. noone even has a reason to go in there, so her attacking is 100% up to the people, and SHE "is" protected by law. SC specifically states that if a livestock dog attacks someone that has broken into the FENCED/LOCKED property, that the dog, nor the owner can be held responsible, not even in civil court.  Even with that, great pyrenese are known as "gentle giants", and unless attacked by the person will never attack a human. She would bark at them and wake us up, and her size alone is extremely intimidating (she comes up past my waist!). She weighs 130 pounds. HUGE dog. The pups however are only half pyrenese, an accidental litter that we still don't know where came from. That male put himself in a lot of pain to get to her. Electric fence all the way around, and not a light one either. it actually hurts. I'll have to keep an eye on their temperment.

As for the posting signs, SC law says that you only have to put 1 sign at each of the 4 corners of your land. How is anyone supposed to see them?!  Ours are everywhere. you can not get on our property without seeing one. Even if you come through the woods!

In SC, you only need a permit for concealed weapon. You can buy, have, shoot, carry a pistol as long as it's in sight. I don't have a concealed weapon permit yet. I don't even know if I can get one now that I'm completely disabled. I'll have to look into it again. Personally though, I like the weapon being in plain sight. That way they know right offhand that I am armed. Maybe that's why noone has gotten violent?

Anyway, this has gotten way off topic. As I said earlier, If you want to take pictures, please come ask us! I took over 100 pictures yesterday! We'll give you permission to walk all you want! We'll even put it in writing for you so there are no misunderstandings if the police or DNR find you out there. We just don't want people running their 4-wheelers and motrocycles and spilling oil on our gardens!

Wayne
LaserBillA
#53 Posted : Saturday, May 24, 2008 3:30:30 AM
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Posts: 134,494
I see a lot of parallels between RL(Real Life) and the current land battles in some virtual worlds like www.SecondLife.com.

 In RL(real life) I have two acres adjoining the MN Paul Bunyan trail. I used to have problems with people and bikers wearing down the dirt over my drain field. so I brushed out a new path down the property line and blocked off the path that went over my sewer drain field.
 I told neighbors they can use the path, but I have NOT put wood chips or anything else down due to the liability of having a path.

 In SL(Second Life) there are two groups that are "discussing" the two sides of this argument. On the one side is the "Free Skys" group that wants to fly over others property. On the other side is the land owners (FYI: The land owners actually pay for the game).

I made my SL(SecondLife) property look really nice complete with walking paths, wind, solar panels, and some small dome buildings, but I can't allow people to fly over my land since that leaves me vulnerable to greifers(vandals) that want to fill my land with signs for there products and other annoying things.

So in the end I have to tread the line in both RL(real Life) and SL(SecondLife) due to the rules in place in both the real and virtual worlds.

Stay Out
#54 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:38:19 AM
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Posts: 134,494
My land is posted NO TRESPASSING with the big yellow sign, every 60 foot the wooden fence post has NO TRESPASSING painted down the height of the post, 5 rows of electric fencing and 6 large dogs to keep hunters and hiker out and my animal in.  My husband & I purchased the land made the payments every month and pay the taxes every year.  We spent years cleaning out the woods of all the junk, downed trees and underbrush to make a park like setting with trails for my husband, myself and the kids to ride the horses and four wheelers.  This is our little peace of heaven and we work hard to keep it that way.  No one has the right to be on our property without our permission.   There is plenty of City, County and State land of other people to use.  If you want land to hunt or hike on then BUY IT!
Anonymous
#55 Posted : Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:41:31 AM
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Posts: 134,494
My land is posted NO TRESPASSING with the big yellow sign, every 60 foot the wooden fence post has NO TRESPASSING painted down the height of the post;5 rows of electric fencing and 6 large dogs to keep hunters and hiker out and my animal in.  My husband & I purchased the land made the payments every month and pay the taxes every year.  We spent years cleaning out the woods of all the junk, downed trees and underbrush to make a park like setting with trails for my husband, myself and the kids to ride the horses and four wheelers.  This is our little peace of heaven and we work hard to keep it that way.  No one has the right to be on our property without our permission.   There is plenty of City, County and State land of other people to use.  If you want land to hunt or hike on then BUY IT!
keith
#56 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:36:06 PM
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Posts: 134,494
After reading your thoughts about trespassing on other peoples property, I would like to relay a few experiences that I have experienced.  My wife and I own and live on some rural property in Louisiana.  The current trespass laws do not require me to "Post" my property - nor does it require large landownere (timber companies) to "Post" theirs.  It is the individuals responsibility to abtain permission to go onto someone's property.  Initially, I didn't like "Posted Property" and refused to "Post" my own property.  Anyone who wanted was welcome to walk, picnic or hunt on our property.  There was only 1 request I made - don't cut my trees & don't dump any garbage.  Guess what.  Not only were some 100+ year old cedar trees cut from an old house place where my great grandparents had lived in the early 1900's, I was threatened with harm to myself, my wife, children and my parents by some of our "resident" drug dealers when I reported the theft to our local Sheriff's Department.  My father & I lease (for hunting, hiking, etc.) some other land from a timber company that is adjacent to his property.  We have to pay each year for the right to go onto this property.  Since the theft of my trees, I have "Posted" my property and reported trespassers to our local Sheriff's  Department.  Last year, a company that decided to cross my property, took a bulldozer an pushed a new path through my property around my posted signs.  In return for not pressing charges, they agreed to pay for bulldozing more than 50 of our live oak and red oak trees.  The reason they gave for deciding to cross my property was that "It was closer to the Parish road".  While I may sympathize with your desire to hike in the woods, I have to pay for that right in my neighborhood.  If one asks, I may (if I choose) give them permission - otherwise, they may very well get acquainted with our Sheriff's Department. 
John Rockhold
#57 Posted : Tuesday, July 01, 2008 3:00:09 PM
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practicalman45 -- just wanted to let you know something about the way you pasted in the trespassing sign text in your post was causing technical issues for this forum. I fixed the problem, which is why your post looks different now. But I didn't change any of your text. Just wanted you to know.

skruzich
#58 Posted : Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:07:12 AM
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Posts: 134,494
Sarah/Librum wrote:

This tread makes me think that English have 'made their bed again'.  And while I am not so educated as many here, I do have one question popping up in my mind.  If this 'tresspass right' exists, then it always did.  And if it always did, how did roads come into existance?

Sarah





Not only that Sarah, if it existed then why do they take 30' of MY land from the center of the road and claim a easment on it if folks can just walk across my property at will.

skruzich
#59 Posted : Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:11:20 AM
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Spark123y wrote:

Death penalty for trespassing? Seems abit harsh. For the first offense I think I'd vote for just puttem in the stocks and throw rotten veggies atem. The second time you burnem at the stake. After that?? 

I worked with a nutcase who shot at a hunter who accidently got on his land(no it wasnt posted). Last I knew he was still in jail.

Brian


That kinda depends on the trespasser.  IF they wish to escalate their "imagined" right to tresspass, then I most definately would have no problem in removing them from the property.  IF it escalated to violence, they would most certainly lose!  
A man has a right to defend his property as well as his life.

skruzich
#60 Posted : Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:21:16 AM
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Posts: 134,494
Moose Hollow FArm wrote:

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