The Plowboy Interview: Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

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However, our technological capabilities are improving, and I'm absolutely sure that, in the next decade, we'll be able to take an energy photograph of the separation of the "butterfly" from the "cocoon"—the severing of the cord that connects the spiritual and physical—that occurs at death.

PLOWBOY: But is it possible to reach, or contact, this level without dying or having a near-death experience?

KÜBLER-ROSS: The psychic level can be reached, and manipulated by humans, but I'm very opposed to teaching such things, including techniques that help one autogenically induce an out-of-body experience. Now I don't feel this way because psychic energy is, in itself, bad. It is not bad, but people misuse it dreadfully. I'd say that anybody who fools around with psychic energy has a 90% chance of becoming a phony. But, you understand, I am also a burned child. I've seen people misuse their psychic gifts.

Besides, what's the point of deliberately trying to bring about such experiences? As long as you do only work that you really love to do, and do your job with faith and trust, you will always get whatever experiences you need for your own evolution. So why sidetrack yourself by spending years "shopping" for some psychic or spiritual event that's not meant for you yet? That's like trying to study highschool math before you learn any arithmetic in elementary school.

PLOWBOY: Let's move back to dying. What's the third stage of death?

KÜBLER-ROSS: At the end of the second stage, the person goes through something that—for him or her—represents transition to the third, or the spiritual, level. That symbol may be a mountain pass, the Ganges river, a tunnel, the pearly gates ... every individual's perception of the transition will be culturally determined. At any rate, at the end of that tunnel or whatever, you will see a light. Once you have a glimpse of it, you'll have no fear of dying ... no way. In fact, experiencing that light will give you an overwhelming feeling of love and bliss.

Then when you finally die, the invisible energy cord that connects the cocoon to the butterfly is severed . . . and you complete your journey to the spiritual level. This level is in the realm of God. It can't be manipulated in any way by humankind.

Once there, you realize what humanity could be. You review all the words, thoughts, and deeds of your life and know how they've affected others. You learn that the summation of your life is the consequence of every single choice you've made. You see whether you've learned the lessons you promised yourself to learn in this lifetime so you can "graduate" . . . or whether you will need to come back to earth to try again. You see, you cannot return to God with dirty hands, because you're responsible for your actions. You cannot kill, for example, and then think you can sit in heaven for eternity. You have to come back and make good for all your mistakes.

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