The Plowboy Interview: Frank Herbert

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PLOWBOY: Where would we get the energy to produce hydrogen fuel?

HERBERT: We have wind, the tides, the temperature differential in the ocean . . . there's an enormous amount of untapped energy. And the real importance of such diversified power resources will be the fact that communities will be able to make their own fuel.

Now you must recognize that any change which makes small areas more independent will have both good and bad aspects. After all, there is something to be said for the glue that holds us together as a society.

PLOWBOY: Wait a minute . . . you've spent a good bit of our time here damning big government and praising independence. Just what value do you see in large, centralized societies?

HERBERT: Remember that we are interdependent. So if you change the situation that has provided the glue of social interdependence, you must institute alternate adhesive forces to hold us together. Look at it this way: It's very possible that, within the next 15 years, a little community like Port Townsend could be in a position to threaten the federal government.

PLOWBOY: How could a small group back up such a threat . . . with atomics?

HERBERT: Pshaw! There are weapons much more dangerous than nuclear devices . . . things like contagious diseases that can't be cured, or substances that can be slipped into food—and water—supply chains in order to sterilize large populations.

And the often-touted concept of world government could in no way handle such terrorism, because that particular dream suffers from what must be one of the few immovable laws of the universe . . . the basic truth that the more you try to control, the more there is that needs to be controlled.

PLOWBOY: So how can humanity deal with threats posed by small but powerful groups?

HERBERT: We're going to have to make very tough evaluations of how we instill morality into our young . . . and how we help people come to believe that all humans are similar creatures and that the world will be better off if everyone does try to live by something like the Golden Rule. And we'll probably discover-possibly only after suffering a certain amount of pain—that the only way to spread such values is, naturally, on the community and individual levels.

Ultimately, I think the individual will become increasingly important in this world . . . I think the collective society is on its way out. But, in relation to all my statements, you must remember that I'm talking about the kind of individual who has been raised to weigh the consequences of his or her actions, not simply for him- or herself, but for others as well. If we don't manage to produce such thinking moral citizens, we're likely going to go down the tube.

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