The Plowboy Interview: John Holt

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In fact, I think that our society expects schools to get students to the point where they do things only for outside rewards. People who perform tasks for their internal reasons are hard to control. Now, I don't think that teachers get up in the morning and say to themselves, "I'm going to go to school today and take away all those young people's internal motivations" . . . but that's exactly what often happens.

PLOWBOY: Did you find college any more rewarding than your early education?

HOLT: College was a very bad experience for me. I knew there was a "trick" to doing well in school, and it didn't seem to me that the trick was worth doing . . . but I was too scared to stop doing it! As far as I could see, though, college had no intrinsic purpose or connection to the world around me.

But then I went into the best learning community I have ever been a part of . . . on board a submarine, the U.S.S. Barbero.

PLOWBOY: You found a learning community on a submarine?

HOLT: Yes. It was during World War II, and I had a very unusual captain who believed in giving his youngest and most inexperienced officers-like me-a lot of responsibility right off the bat. This fellow realized that the best way for a person to learn to do something is to start doing it.

That was the first time anyone had ever put some real trust in me, and it was a very powerful educational experience. I was observant and asked a lot of questions, so before long I could do my share to help run a submarine on war patrol. I had an important task to do, and I did it well. The experience provided a great boost to my morale.

Maybe I'm kind of old-fashioned, but I don't think the currently popular "therapeutic" methods-which involve telling someone, "You're OK, you're really wonderful"-do much good. Tackling a job that seems worth doing, and doing it in a competent manner, is-to my way of thinking-the best way for a person to gain selfesteem.

PLOWBOY: What happened to you after the war?

HOLT: Well, I spent six years working for the World Federalists, an outfit that was trying to stop the proliferation of atomic weapons. Then I traveled around Europe, crewed my way back home on a former Coast Guard patrol boat, andafter that-went to visit my sister and her husband on their small cattle ranch near Taos, New Mexico. I didn't know what to do next . . . but I thought that maybe I'd become a farmer, and raise food in a manner that would help build the soil.

My sister suggested that-since I enjoyed children and they liked me-I might want to become a teacher. I didn't take to that idea at all, though. Oh, I wasn't particularly critical of schools or education, as I am now . . . teaching just didn't seem to me to be appealing work. But my sister persisted. She told me about the new Colorado Rocky Mountain School, where-it was planned-the faculty and students would build their own buildings and raise a lot of their food. She went on to suggest that, if I worked there, I might learn some of the skills I'd need in order to farm . . . and I'd get paid at the same time.

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