Lester R. Brown: Author, Ecologist and Economist

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It's important to remember, too, that the energy problem like all the other problems we've just talked about-is a global problem requiring global solutions. All of these things?deforestation, the energy dilemma, overfishing, overgrazing are interconnected, and the problems in one area multiply difficulties in another.

PLOWBOY: Could you give me an example of what you mean?

BROWN: In deforested Third World villages where people can't get enough firewood, they burn cow dung instead. This is the cow dung that once went back on the land as fertilizer. It now gets burned. The firewood shortage is actually contributing to the deterioration of the food situation in the Third World.

You can't separate these issues. You cannot separate the state of the global economy from the state of the biological systems on which that economy depends.

Here's another example. Synthetic textile fibers are made from petroleum. As the price of oil goes up, so does the price of synthetic fibers. Well, when textile fibers go up in price, farmers in Mexico begin planting more and more cotton. And as they plant more land to cotton, food shortages develop in Mexico. Then Mexico has to import more food.

Look at what happened to soybeans when the Peruvian anchovy fishery collapsed. As you probably know, most anchovies end up being fed to poultry and hogs as fish meal. OK. When the anchovy catch fell in the early part of this decade, farmers had to find another source of high-quality protein for their poultry and hogs. They chose soybeans. And the increased demand for soybeans sent prices through the roof!

Now, when soybean prices went from $2.40 a bushel to $5.00 a bushel, Brazilian farmers started planting soybeans. Many of them ripped out coffee trees to do this. The result was that a year and a half ago-when a severe frost damaged the remaining coffee crops-we discovered that we didn't have enough reserves of coffee to carry us through a poor crop year. And the price of coffee increased fourfold in a matter of months.

So you see, you can't separate these issues. You cannot separate the state of the global economy from the state of the biological systems on which that economy depends.

PLOWBOY: You seem to be hinting that some of our current economic problems are linked to problems in the biosphere.

BROWN: our current economic problems?including inflation, unemployment, and capital shortages-are, to a large extent, of biological origin. Arid that is one reason why economists today are at such a loss to explain what's going on around them. Those of us trained in economics generally do not pay any attention to what's happening to biological systems ... and I think that's a serious mistake. We have reams of data and so forth, but it's economic data. It doesn't tell you what the rate of deforestation is in Africa.

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