Gil Friend and David Morris of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance

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PLOWBOY: How long does this process take?

FRIEND: It varies with the systems. The one that's gotten the most notoriety is the Clivus Multrum model from Sweden (see Access, MOTHER NO. 31). You have to wait about two years from the time you install a Clivus until it starts yielding completely digested humus. After that, the manufacturer suggests collecting the composted material every year.

PLOWBOY: Do you plan to experiment with a composting toilet here?

FRIEND: Well, the Washington, D.C., legal code says that every residence has to have a toilet connected to the sewage system. But as far as I know, you don't have to use it. So conceivably, we could put in a composting toilet as long as the other one stays hooked up. We'd just stop using the "real toilet" . . . you know, stop flushing away 10 gallons of water every time someone wants to get rid of a half pint of urine.

That's really insane when you consider that an adequate supply of drinkable water is getting to be a bigger problem in most cities every year. Even if you wanted to use water to dispose of such waste, it could be done with a couple of quarts instead of 10 gallons. But there's no reason to flush urine away in the first place . . . it has a high nitrogen and phosphate content.

PLOWBOY: So? What can you do with that nitrogen and phosphate in town?

FRIEND: We've been using it on our garden.

PLOWBOY: You do?

FRIEND: Sure. We dilute urine five to one—it's too strong in its original concentration—and use it on our gardens as a supplementary fertilizer.

PLOWBOY: Well that's simple enough. But it's going to cost money—maybe a lot—for a community to utilize some of your other ideas. And in poorer neighborhoods investment funds are often hard to come by. What are you doing about that?

MORRIS: In most cases, unfortunately, banks take capital out of impoverished communities and invest it in other areas usually outside the city, sometimes outside the nation—where they can get a higher return. We want to promote the creation of grassroots financial institutions which see themselves as an integral part of the communities in which they're located . . . that not only loan money in a neighborhood but also collect local economic data and provide other related services.

To further that end, Bill Batko—another ILSR staff member—has been working with the City Council to develop the framework for a central city bank that would act much like the Federal Reserve System in its relation to these neighborhood development banks. The central bank would act as a mechanism for redistributing money from very rich neighborhoods to poorer areas. So far, the idea has gotten a surprising amount of support here in Washington.

PLOWBOY: David, let me jump—if I may—from finances to another subject. Your group has always been interested in pioneering new ways for urban communities to become energy self-reliant . . . but haven't you changed your thinking in this area as you've gone along?

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